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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dinghy Show
    Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 1:36pm

I just want to point out a few things about the D-one, I feel it only fair considering we were the main brunt of Wetabix criticism.

1) Whilst Devoti sailing are a large dinghy manufacturer they are not of the scale of RS or Topper. 

2) Devoti build boats, much in the same way as Ovington.  The boats are then sold through a dealer network.

3) The UK association is run completely by D-one owners/sailors.  Its self funding and very, very different from professional associations like RS or Laser

4) The D-one has never been subject to any mass marketing propaganda ala topper, Laser or RS.  As such people buy the boat via word of mouth or actually trying a boat!

 

So to summarise, we are a standalone class amateur class association.  Everyone sailing in the UK fleet owns their boat (other than me) We are a small class marketed in a way to create a long term organic growth, being built on concrete footings.  making a fast buck does not fit with the builders, UK distributors or the classes business models.  So please do not use an ill informed brush to tar us in the same way as everyone else.

 

Oh and for the record, we will be at the dinghy show.  As a CLASS ASSOCIATION not as part of a massive commercial stand, which for the record for a very small new class is very expensive and incredibly hard to fund raise.  So please ask the questions before you chuck the knives, as a few of us work very hard trying to establish ourselves.


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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Rupert

There are still a few ToYs around, but very much in the preserve of odd boat collectors - it was too strange even for me, and I sold mine. The Bonito died for a reason, as I'm sure Nessa can confirm.



Rupert, who are YOU to call ME odd? LOL

 I do indeed have a ToY, and have to confess to having had a Bonito.  The Toy is a noce boat (so I'm told) the Bonito desrved to die, though there is one still going at Hunts.




Edited by winging it - 04 Feb 13 at 1:31pm
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 1:28pm
I dont see the ramblings as trolling, just stating the obvious that dinghy racing has become increasingly disparate as more and more designs hit the water. 

There is however an inevitability that older designs can sometimes be bettered by new designs and that technology moves on allowing improvements to older designs or completely new ways of building new boats.

The growth of design and marketing led companies producing ranges of boats inevitably leads to new (but sometimes irrelevant) niches being created and filled to keep sales up.

So what possible niches are left or which segment has scope for new designs?

Well the segment that has more designs fighting it out at present is the singlehander. This category has grown in recent years whilst overall dinghy sailing has declined.

You want a challenging Asy then pick a d-one or an RS100

Spinnaker Trapeze - Musto Skiff or RS700

Trapeze - RS600 or Contender or if you are light the 3.7

Hiking mono-sail - Phantom, Blaze, Supernova, Streaker, Laser, etc

Foiler - Int Moth

However, there is still unfinished business here - The Laser is heavy, old fashioned with a horrid rig and sail. I have had one for many years and can never argue with the fleet numbers, but it is painfull to sail well and beats you up over time. My Supernova is light years better than a Laser - Long, light, stiff, nice modern sail and very adjustable rig (Laser now in the garage).

There is a large niche for a relatively low cost simple self draining light hull capable of carrying a wide weight range but with a more comfortable design, simple carbon rig and semi-battened sail. The Rooster project X was along the right lines, but probably didn't have enough momentum. The boat should be a simple club boat and forget about being the next big thing or the olympic boat. If priced right it would sell in buckets.

The other niche is a relatively stable trapeze boat for all us ageing guys with knackered knees who don't want to fall in too often - The V-Twin's cavity scow approach was really interesting and the Vortex was the right idea. I would like to see Jo Richards design a Vortex 2 which from the outset was designed for a kite - ie slightly longer with more forward buoyancy.

As for the Weta, its a really underrated product. Its a great boat, but never had enough in one place to gain traction in the UK. It fits in a normal dinghy space, has simple controls, goes like stink, is well built and needs practice and good technique to sail well. It costs about the same as a d-one and is faster round a course, but you can race it down and take your five year old out for a tootle around the harbour. 

I think there is just a natural snooty disdain for mutihulls from dinghy sailors, but having crossed to the dark side and raced dragonflys for some years, they are really fascinating to sail.

Of course if you are happy shredding your knees to sail upwind at 6 knots into a 3 knot tide, then carry on and keep that prejudice, but beware  that once you have dabbled in the dark side it is rather addictive... Ying Yang



 

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BBSCFaithfull View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 1:09pm
Will be on the 14 stand Saturday Morning. Be good to see everyone.
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Wetabix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:34pm
Actually, not. The recommended trim is leeward float about half immersed. In winds up to about 18 knots you can achieve this by 'sitting' - after that you slide your bum over the edge of the tramp and sit on the windward float. This is what we call 'hiking'. I have never managed to get back in  from  this position, but some people who are mostly about 30 years younger than I have fitted a trapeze handle to the shroud and seem to manage.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Caveman

The Weta doesn't whet my appetite as a racing machine. However it would be churlish to deny that, in terms of  accessible performance and fun, it seems to have a lot going for it. Fantastic for blasting around the Med / Aegean while on holiday. I reckon my student daughter and her friends would love it.

If I were the Weta builder, I would be marketing this boat to the holiday companies. Then people might come home from holdiay and decide to buy one. That's how a few people I know became owners of boats like Xenons and Vagos.  

I presume the fastest way to sail it would be to keep both floats out of the water as much as possible, so it's not going to be any less work than any other boat!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 11:36am
There are still a few ToYs around, but very much in the preserve of odd boat collectors - it was too strange even for me, and I sold mine. The Bonito died for a reason, as I'm sure Nessa can confirm.

The Minisail is alive and making a slow recovery - there were 2 at the FOM, after all!

minisail.org.uk will give you info about these sledges, and GRF called them on another thread. He was being derogatory, but it fits quite well, really. Fantastic fun downhill/wind), a slog to get back up again.

The CA has no money currently, and there is no builder, so no point being at the show, but I was out racing yesterday in one of mine. Main opposition? 2 EPS's! I confess they are somewhat quicker, but the handicapping had the 3 of us pretty close at the end.

There are now 2 sail makers (R&J and Morgan Sails - Lasernut) and even a Minisail Max sail in the pipeline for a chap in France, for use with a sliding seat, boosting the sail area to 8.2 SqM.
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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 11:11am
Maybe it is something about single handers?? Where are the following: TOY, minisail, bonito. Maybe for a single hander you need a very quick to rig as i don't have much time (Laser, Topper), or a comfortable not too strenuous for us oldies (Solo), or a wow that's fun (Musto Skiff). And everything else doesn't quite make it over time??

many apologies for the inaccurate and false impressions :-)
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 10:40am
(in the case of the Blaze, after a substantial redesign of the rig) .....

For the presevation of the reality .... the RIG was almost unchanged.   The gooseneck was moved down several inches down the mast (10 minutes with drill and rivets)  ... and blooming 'eck a different, smaller sail was substituted....   Result - boat tamed and  manageable compared to the nightmare original rig.  That was way back in the first quarter of the Blazes history - the major part of the fleet came afterwards of course and the rest is history. 

I hardly think the big mnanufacturers of the day gave a stuff about the Phantom, that was the preserve of 'big lads' only at the time and of little or less interest to them.   The Blaze, EPS and 300 were aimed generally at the 'average'sort of bloke (and occasional lady) ... It was the Phantom whose rapid rig evolution within very liberal rules that then allowed more average sized blokes to sail it in light and medium conditions ... but I do not think anyone is then suggested the Phantom Class or manufacturer was 'targetting' the 'big manufacturers offerings....  are they ?

Great boat that it is  the Phantom has done very well indeed but it is not the only boat to hit the mark with the racing community.  I've raced them myself but prefer the Blaze (as you might expect!),  others will prefer the 300 and .... er GRF loves his EPS Wink.      

Mike L.


Edited by blaze720 - 04 Feb 13 at 10:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 10:36am
We look forward to welcoming the forumites to the Finn stand about 12ish on Saturday?
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