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craiggo ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Having sailed both 49ers and 800's I,d say the only significant difference is the skill level required by the crew. On the 800 you can get away with a slightly less physical crew, who makes the odd mistake and you wont get punished too much. Weight wise the 800 is actually a better weight carrying boat than the 9er, contrary to popular belief. From a helms point of view the 800 is quirky and can be a arse in light winds whereas the 9er is a piece of cake until you reach 20kts. 9er can be difficult to launch and recover from narrow slipways and especially when you have an onshore breeze with a narrow slipway.
9ers are however cheap and there are a couple at Chew, Chris Gill, Ben McGrane etc. A good 2nd hand old boat £3000. As for 800 a good 2nd hand boat £4500 Given your position If you have a guarenteed crew, get a L4000 or 49er if you havnt, get an RS600! |
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CurlyBen ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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I'm moving house in a few weeks and moving back again (hopefully) in a
year so my sailing club's gonna change soon! I sail at Chew Valley near
Bristol at the moment (used to spend a lot of time up at Faslane btw -
not sure if youd have been sailing then though!) and there's a few
4000s in the boat park but I haven't seen any out yet, but have seen a
couple of 800s. Saw a 49er advertised recently that looked to be a
total steal, but unfortunately I need a bit more cash for that or an
800!
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49erGBR735HSC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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It depends where you sail, both boats are really popular, best looking
at the nationals attendance figures for a rough guide and then going to
your club to see what's sitting in the dinghy park. For instance at
HSC, we have no 800s in the dinghy park just now but a good few 4000
but at other clubs the reverse is true. The 800 did take a massive
chunk out of the 4000s market but you have to be aware of regional
trends too. Up in Scotland, the MPS and 49er are really taking off just
now and are showing a real growth in comparision to other classes but
that will be different in other areas.
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CurlyBen ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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Wow, that's pretty heavy! I guess being so heavy it needs a lot more
sail area for the same performance as something like the 800 - won't
slow down as quick though! Sounds like I want to try and avoid bags
then. Are the 800s much more popular than the 4000s, any idea? There
seem to be a lot of 4000s coming up for sale than 800s, and the 800s
are twice the price.
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49erGBR735HSC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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When we sailed the 5000, I loved her to bits. The major problem is they
are really heavy boats, weighing in at wayfarer weight. The rig is
pretty heavy too. You go for a swim and thats you basically messed up
your race, well thats what we found. The heavy rig, combined with the
sail area had us spending ages righting the boat using righting
lines. Another problem we had was that our club, at the time, was
sending us round triangular courses. With the bags, you need to be in
most cases sailing windward leeward courses to sail the boat to its
maximum potential. With any wind, you need to be sailing straight
downwind to be able to get the kite to sit at the windward side to drop
the kite. I valued the crew I was sailing with because he could pull
the kite round the front of the jib when we needed to and get the kite
into the bag as quick as possible. From a crewing point of veiw, I
reckon you need to be experienced to sail the 5000 effectively. Mind
you the 5000 was bomb proof and we never had to replace anything
through straight forward gear failures but we were always wishing she
had a kite chute, well the crew was.
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CurlyBen ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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Yeah, it would be nice to be control the boat in a breeze! Last year I
was helming a 420 in team races a lot, when it got blowy it was
interesting cos my crew was 8 stone and as it was team racing no
trapeze, and definitely no reefing! kept it right way up most of the
time though. I'm a bit torn now, as I really want the twin trapeze so
800 sounds best, but there's a lot more of a premium on them from the
prices I've seen so far. 4000s seem to start at about £1800, I haven't
seen 800s for less than £4000, and that's a lot more work to get it!
What did you think of the 5000 when you were sailing it? I'm just
interested, it looks like a fun boat to sail but it doesn't look as
easy to use as the more modern designs - especially things like bags
instead of chutes.
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49erGBR735HSC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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He actually sails an 800 and was in a lower weight range than us
(slightly) and was saying we wouldn't be too competitive in all but
really windy conditions. I think where he was coming from was we'd be
the heavy guys in the 800 but about mid-range for the 49er. I think if
you're about 130-140kg you'd be an okay weight for the 800, maybe even
at the heavier end of the fleet which isn't too bad a thing because it
means you should be able to control the boat better when its windier.
We were also told that after sailing the 5000 competitively we might
find the 800 easy, boat handling wise where as the 49er would be a step
up and we'd enjoy her more.
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CurlyBen ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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Is the 800 more suitable for lightweights then? I'm about 65, 70 at the
moment and I think people I'm likely to sail with will be a similar
weight. What was it about the 800 that meant he didn't recommend it?
I'm kinda suprised the dealer was turning away business! I'll have to
try and dig out a copy of that Dinghy article
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49erGBR735HSC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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I haven't actually sailed an 800 but we considered buying one when
moving class from the 5000. We talked to our local RS dealer and they
reccommended that for our weight (140-150kg) and coming from the 5000,
we should only really be looking at the 49er or I14 to get the most out
of our sailing. We've raced against 800 & they are much more
comfortable sail in light winds because of their hull shape and not
having such a big rig. There is a bit of a leap from the 800 to the
49er, considering the 49er carries much more sail and has more
skiff-like hull. The 800 seems to be relatively forgiving compared to
the 49er. The comparision that you read was probably the same one which
I saw in "Dinghy" magazine, & seemed to hit the nail on the head
between the differences in the boats.
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CurlyBen ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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Thanks for that, that actually reminds me of a conversation I had with
a guy on the RS stand at the baot show a while back. He said that I'd
be able to sail it without too much difficulty, but getting max
performance out of it was much harder. Saw a comparison of the 800 and
the 49er somewhere, that was saying that the 49er was much harder to
sail for a fairly small speed increase. How do you find the 49er? have
you sailed an 800?
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