Design Failrues....

Originally posted by turnturtle Just a hint Doug, but there's no face lost in saying that things don't always work out as planned and taking a step back to regroup behind closed doors is sometimes the best way forward.... without trial and error the envelope will never be pushed.

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Thanks for the hint. I agree 100%. The thing is, though, on my foiler for instance, the bow design had a much more profound affect on low windspeed take off here in the short chop of the intercoastal than I anticipated-that was a design mistake by me that adversely affected one of the design parameters I felt was critical. But does that mean the aeroSKIFF was a design failure as Frump said?
I don't think so because of all the things that worked right(listed in a previous post). I don't think you can say that a boat is a design failure until it is put on the market and fails to perform.
My boat was a highly experimental foiler platform where the vast majority of the new, experimental stuff worked well or at least well enough to suggest more testing.
According to Jon and Linton the ventilated foil system designed and patented by Jon worked exceedingly well both on the Tomahawk and on a windsurfer. Again, I don't think you can say that the Tomahawk was a "design failure" since it was never put on the market and the technical aspects of the foil system worked very well.

Originally posted by Mark Jardine Originally posted by Neptune Anyone remember Team Philips? I'd rather not...

Team Philips is interesting, it could have been a great
boat. I think they pushed the construction tech too far.
But if the structure of the boat had held together would it
of been competitive? I guess we will never know.

Chris Hampe
IC GBR 238

Originally posted by chrishampe Originally posted by Mark Jardine Originally posted by Neptune Anyone remember Team Philips? I'd rather not... Team Philips is interesting, it could have been a great boat. I think they pushed the construction tech too far. But if the structure of the boat had held together would it of been competitive? I guess we will never know. Chris Hampe IC GBR 238

Mr Jardine - shame on you !!!!

Whatever the final outcome of the TP saga, it's really unfair and factually
incorrect to label it as a 'design failure'.

Like everything else Ade Thompson has done the design was stunning,
was light years ahead of its time and if things had been different (more
time, more money) the outcome could so easily have been very different.

The major structural failure of the bows was down to a basic construction
error (not 'design') as a result of a rushed build and perhaps inexperience
of the build team combined with a lack of testing.

With hindsight where the TP project probably went wrong was trying to
innovate on too many fronts, with too little money and too little time
carried along by Pete Goss' never ending enthusiasm.

From what I understand the performance on its maiden sail (from
Dartmouth to London) (thank God it didnt break on that trip) was truly
stunning and if you check out the final video shot as she headed out into
the Atlantic you will see that not only was she fast but also incredibly
stable (there is a guy casually standing on deck coiling a rope) - they
dont do that on Groupama or Bank Pop !

Compared with the other boats built for The Race TP was the only
innovative boat - everybody else played safe and built pretty tame
conventional cats (Ok Club Med looked cool out on her maiden sail but
where is she now ?!).

It still puzzles me why Pete Goss decided to head out in the North
Atlantic from the top of Scotland and then sail into the eye of a monster
storm !!!!! Non of the boats in The Race faced anything like those
conditions, even Loick Peyron's storm just before The Horn he was
heading downwind in big but organised seas. Non of those boats would
have survived that storm in the Atlantic.

What most people seem to forget is the spin offs from TP. The wave
piercing bow concept has been copied in Idec, Sodebo, BMW Oracle,
Alinghi 5, Banque Pop etc. The cantilever bows on Alinghi 5 were
probably bigger than on TP, the twin rig concept was copied (no where
near as elegantly though) on Yves Parlier's Médiatis Région Aquitaine
(24hr record holder). The un-stayed masts were pure genius apart from
the initial friction bearing issue.

If I won the Euro lottery I would commission TP 2 from the same design
team !







Edited by ChrisC

Well that is quite ugly however I think if you want an ugly unedited dinghy look to the BRITISH moth because I just
can't stand the look of that boat.