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Gybing Plates

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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by iGRF

You could 'spring' the diamond, so more pressure gives max angle and less pressure reduces it, but I'm not sure that's the way round you want it, then actually you could spring the other side for the opposite effect, wait a minute, this needs more dwelling on, so like a suspension ATB you springload with adjustable tension, I'm going to think further about this...


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Do Different View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:08pm
So reading all that has been said by respected designers and theorists.

If I have understood correctly.

A gybing board does not have magical properties that make a board "climb" to windward and there is no such thing as something for nothing. The most significant benefit is to allow the boat to track straight through the water for most efficient use of hull shape.

If the above is right, given that hull alignment is top effect can I ask a couple of simple minded questions.

Would a heavily chined hull shape benefit more than a round dish?

Is the benefit greater in displacement mode, as when planing there is less hull in the water and what is would most likely be pretty flat anyway?

Does the fact that gybing boards are big in Five Oh's (round and planing hulls) mean the above questions are total tosh or Five Oh's simply love tech?







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realnutter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote realnutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:12pm
As I understand it... gybing boards only work when fully down.. it's the bit that remains in the case that is shaped to allow the magic to happen...

Pull the plate up, as you would off the wind., and planing, and they can no longer gybe...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by realnutter

As I understand it... gybing boards only work when fully down.. it's the bit that remains in the case that is shaped to allow the magic to happen...

Pull the plate up, as you would off the wind., and planing, and they can no longer gybe...

Thats the case for a gybing CB which has a diamond shaped head - the gybing daggers above gybe at all states of retraction.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Do Different

So reading all that has been said by respected designers and theorists.

If I have understood correctly.

A gybing board does not have magical properties that make a board "climb" to windward and there is no such thing as something for nothing. The most significant benefit is to allow the boat to track straight through the water for most efficient use of hull shape.
Yes basically - you aren't inducing drag off the hull by dragging it sideways through the water by a few degrees (up to 10% extra drag!)
If the above is right, given that hull alignment is top effect can I ask a couple of simple minded questions.

Would a heavily chined hull shape benefit more than a round dish? Maybe - different hulls have different performances in yaw

Is the benefit greater in displacement mode, as when planing there is less hull in the water and what is would most likely be pretty flat anyway?
Generally greater benefit in disp mode as when pinching the same RM and SF is being derived froim the same area at lower speed, so bigger Cl needed so consequently bigger yaw angle, so more case for a gyber
Does the fact that gybing boards are big in Five Oh's (round and planing hulls) mean the above questions are total tosh or Five Oh's simply love tech? Big class peopled by wealthy motivated and clever gents. rules allow it. Culture of tweaking. Big gains in some conditions.







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realnutter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote realnutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

- the gybing daggers above gybe at all states of retraction.



Is a suitably shaped dagger board actually a good foil?..  It goes against all teaching to build a foil with max thickness toward the rear edge..


Edited by realnutter - 28 Jan 16 at 9:38pm
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by realnutter

Originally posted by Daniel Holman

- the gybing daggers above gybe at all states of retraction.



Is a suitably shaped dagger board actually a good foil?..  It goes against all teaching to build a foil with max thickness toward the rear edge..


the daggerboard is shaped as one would optimally shape it, it then slides up and down through a diamond shaped "box" which then sits in the square case - should be evident in the pics above

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman


Also, you wouldn't adjust it coming out of tacks as that would be such a tiny percentage of the total time sailing

Come sail a Canoe Dan, and you'll be amazed how much time you lose tacking! Still, I expect you're right. I can't imagine doing it myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote realnutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman



the daggerboard is shaped as one would optimally shape it, it then slides up and down through a diamond shaped "box" which then sits in the square case - should be evident in the pics above



OK, I can see that in the second pic...  Does the black rope have something to do with adjusting the angle?  If so, how?  If not, what's it diong?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 16 at 10:20pm
Could I guess the black rope there to pull the wedge shaped Vee back to adjust and ultimately lock the board's angle of attack.

Dan. Another simplistic question please. 
For a boat with a fixed board does it generally follow that when beating speed is your friend by generating greater power from the board at a lower angle of attack = less yaw of the hull. Pinching is not good if it means less speed and therefore a greater angle of attack needed to generate the power to oppose the rig force = more drag from hull yaw. 

Is pinching for height nearly a optical illusion? When in fact the actual track is probably the same or even worse.  
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