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HALO (and 'Fire') ....

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HALO (and 'Fire') ....
    Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 10:01am
I like the distinctiveness of the names, and the concept of fitting the 3 sails to one mast/boom, though I'm amazed you have managed to get decent balance on all 3. The advantage of a centreboard, I guess, in that you can bring the CLR back when the wind picks up, and a mast that can be raked fore and aft.
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 10:55am

Hi Rupert

We made a classic mistake by going for a different mast (longer) for the original Halo sail - We sold approx 30 of them and then sales dropped to a trickle.  For the vast majority it was too expensive with the requirement for a second mast and it is always a hassle to store the 'other' one somewhere - and when you wanted to switch the ‘other’ mast was inevitably at home or 'back at the club' etc.  We also hated the idea of a mast extender for  host of other reasons ..... 


In hindsight the original decision looked plain stupid so we did something about it.  The new objective  was for 'sail only' switching.   This also allows a lot of new people into the class very economically as all that is needed is to find an existing hull and add either the ‘large’ or ‘small’ sail.  This makes a lot more sense as we are looking to attract more from groups that would otherwise find the Blaze rig ‘too much’ or ‘too little’  

We worked on the Fire and Halo2 sails in background for over a year ... because as you suggest it is more demanding when you  deal with a range and 'fix' the spar element.  Fire was however comparatively quick and simple to achieve but Halo2 must have gone through about 10+ iterations, battening changes (more/less/short/long/full width)  and re-cuts (anyway we lost count !).  The only rig change across the range required is to switch the mast rake for Halo2 ... it is simply set more upright and takes no more than 5 minutes.  Fire and Blaze switching does not even require this.

Drop into Burghfield again some time and have a go yourself – if it is breezy .. or if it light- it does not matter. 

Mike L.

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 1:00pm
Amazing that the Fire doesn't require more rake or the mast foot moving aft compared to the Blaze.  The c.p. must be further forward. You don't find yourself heeling it more to get the helm feel?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 1:08pm
I always felt the foils on the blaze I had, had much to be desired in light winds, they do OK once they get a march on, (by which time I'm in irons anyway)and someone weighty enough to keep it upright, so I wonder if that has much to do with it.

They also were just adopting a 'floppy rig' technique which can't be right, but it did prove to be faster - allegedly.

There's a possible groundswell of Blaze movement in the upper echelons of our club, if it happens (one of our really good guys has a knee injury and is considering one) then the Fire could also have some appeal, so I'm intrigued as to how it progresses.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 2:38pm

Meway

There is fair bit of tolerance and both Fire and Blaze sails are 'in the zone'.   If it needed a rake alteration to maintain good handling and 'feel' we would recommend it and as with Halo it can be changed in a couple of minutes anyway.   Even with the regular Blaze different individuals favour different rake settings - we just tell them the range and they determine what they like after a few sails.  With Halo2 we did need to reset the centre of effort with a rake adjustment and this also helped us increase the overall area as sought.

Greame - Don't really go with the foils comment.  Blaze points pretty high when needed even in lighter winds and I suspect your comment arises because the case you had was not packed out correctly (leaving the c'board to float around to its own devices).  I cannot remember the sail number of your Blaze hull but if it was a very early one (first 150 or so - or more than 13 years old by now) the foils  were slightly smaller in profile and just 20/21mm thick - all subsequent ones have been about 10% larger and 25mm and today are manufactured in aluminium tooling to a very high standard and finish.  The good news is that you can retrofit the later centreboard into these early hulls if the original one is ever damaged beyond repair.

'Floppy rigs' .. all is relative and  best not 'bar tight' in any circumstances - my own one has lightish tension achieved with a simple highfield lever on the forestay.  Certainly don't recommend adjustable forestays myself... or obviously 'floppy' set-ups.  You can do it on the alloy masts as they are if anything slightly stiffer than most of us prefer and  it makes little difference to the way they really work (many have tried to 'better' the recommended over the years !)  .. at least with our (stayed) rigs you can adjust things to suit your weight and sailing style whenever  you want
 
Fire sail ?  Send them  along to try.  We'll tell you and them it is wonderful ... of course we will, but I'm pretty certain that is something you should (as always) determine for yourselves.  It is not as fast as some, including the Blaze itself, but that is not the point - but it is a very very nice derivative that we know will suit a great many out there...  Besides if speed was all everyone would be Cat, Hydrofoil, or board sailing.    

Mike L.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 2:45pm
I think the appeal to me at least with the 'Fire' was the bit where it gets built down to weight, 'they' are also very heavy in standard form, just like about every other damn boat out there. We had a Blaze v EPS face off on sunday, I pulled out my footstrap he broke his kicker strop (much later on when in what I reckon would have been a commanding handicap lead, I don't think I could have held him and only the two Contenders were ahead as the wind built sufficiently for them to wire.

His however was considerably heavier than mine to recover to its trailer, and these days, that's more important.

Edited by iGRF - 29 Sep 14 at 2:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 3:00pm
Mike - does the Blaze (and derivatives) have on-the-fly shroud and forestay adjustment (Phantom style) or it fixed/fast pin only adjustment?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Mike - does the Blaze (and derivatives) have on-the-fly shroud and forestay adjustment (Phantom style) or it fixed/fast pin only adjustment?

You can have an adjustable forestay if you want one. The mast rake never changes so no need to adjustable shrouds.

FWIW I fitted and adjustable forestay to mine. I never used it and took it off 6 months later.
Paul
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 3:21pm
Greame

I know it is 'heavy' ... we deliberately plan and build all hulls that way Wink

The target for 'joined and trimmed' for the Blaze is in fact just 51kg - a comfortable weight even given the size of the hull.  We add foils, rig (which is actually very very light) and in the case of standard Blazes a full telescopic wing system... and then we add correctors for Blaze.   I cannot remember the EPS official weight but the one Laser loaned my for a few weeks years ago was ... not exactly what I would call light even then.

You must remember most old boats do and will have got heavy through moisture absorbtion, I'm especaily talking about polyester examples sailed on the sea.   Most don't use the stuff these days but there are plenty of existing dinghies built of the stuff still out there.  Today it is more often vinylester or epoxy (in fact Cirrus has always used these two alternatives although the early Blazes supplied by Topper were Polyester).  Part of the justification was to avoid this issue.... however if you know what you are doing you can often get a bargain and dry out old polyester hulls getting them back to their original fighting weights ! 

Anyway we have built a specific 'Fire' hull as you know ... but I'll leave you guessing on the weight until it is Y&Y tested - and as you expect it is somewhat lighter.    Our early assessments with target group testers is however that they mostly prefer to retain the leverage of the standard Blaze (even when it carries the weight penalty that entails).  For those with less upper body strength than 'regular guys in their prime'  comfort, leverage and very light sheet loadings are what they really value.  Remember we are primarily looking at the young(er). old(er), light(er) and females out there who don't sail Blaze (or Halo) today.

We are not after the 'Fuller Shilling' as I've said already but you are always welcome to try one of our boats if the urge grabs you ....

Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 3:22pm
Why not Paul? Would it not give better running angles by letting the rig go forward? Would it allow you to depower the rig upwind like on a phantom?
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