New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: R Speculation
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

R Speculation
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5556575859 114>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Ruscoe View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: R Speculation
    Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 12:29pm
I'm not sure that its negativity? more unanswered questions amongst this small on-line community that's used to RS using the forum to deliver messages.  The silence spoke volumes!  This coupled with some confusing PR's and some quoted statements from dinghy show visitors left people hungry for clarification and more information.

Back to Top
L123456 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 30 Apr 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 12:53pm
How much will the sails be?

Everyone seems to love to bash the Laser over the replacement cost of the dacron sails that don't last that long ... it has even spawned a who industry of "replicas" ...

Isn't the Aero following that same path?
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 12:58pm
£840 including the new carbon base for an additional rig..... so not sure about the sail on its own.
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 1:02pm
demo tour is on there too:
Back to Top
L123456 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 30 Apr 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

£840 including the new carbon base for an additional rig..... so not sure about the sail on its own.


Ah ... a Laser sail and lower mast (official) is £590 ....

I think we can see where the margin will be long term ...
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 2:09pm
The Laser rigs will doubtless be going up in price if they ever manage to agree on a plastic topmast, and low purchase price/higher running costs is the way everything from cars downwards is sold these days. In dinghies it makes for a low entry cost which is scarcely a bad thing.
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Is Laser the company still producing/distributing boats in UK, or are those sold by Sailboats remaining stock?  How about the other rotomould models, such as the Pico & Vago?

*bump*

Anyone with a quick answer?
Wilsonian SC
3000 Class
Back to Top
hum3 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 23 Jun 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 247 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hum3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by hum3

Originally posted by yellowwelly


I didn't say they were conning anyone, I simply think that it's a big claim to say that laminate films don't work on bendy carbon rigs... especially when citing windsurfing as the innovation driver.
 
OK - the quote is

“...It is not possible to produce a Mylar sail that with cope with the wide range of mast bend of a responsive carbon rig...”

I agree with you in so far as the statement should have read

“...It is not possible to produce a Mylar sail that with cope with the wide range of mast bend of THE responsive carbon rig...”

That would have made it clear that they were talking about the Aero's specific rig rather than carbon rigs in general, in which case the statement is perfectly valid, as they hold all the cards. It's their rig, their design, and their judgement as to what is 'possible' or not on that rig.


sure okay- Reglass are not capable of developing a tube capable of supporting a film sail on a small sailboat with dynamic twist.... yep okay, I'll buy that.  Thanks for the clarification.   Confused

 

I'm no expert in windsurf masts, although I'm a competent windsurfer. The fundamental fact that windsurfers change rigs in 5 knot increments suggests to me that designing a single, unstayed, dinghy mast to cover the wind range from 6-30+ knots is not trivial, and would be FULL of compromise. The compromise is dictated by the design of the boat, and the design brief.

 

All I am saying is that in the design of the Aero, the best solution to the Aero rig is a dacron sail, because that was the sail that worked as RS wanted it. The Aero belongs to them, and it’s up to them to decide what is best/possible. You don't seem to think that is reasonable, and by RS having highlighted a link to windsurfing masts and the fact that they haven't got a laminate sail is... well, I don't know what you're suggesting?

You've agreed that RS are not trying to con us into something, so what other reason?

 

 

(I've already highlighted what I think the mistake in their marketing blurb is, above...)
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 3:26pm
Hum- no axe to grind on this... but no one is going to convince me that a dacron sail on a unarig unstayed carbon mast is the best solution from a performance perspective for a small racing sailboat.  I've enjoyed too many videos of Finns sailing on youtube to do that.  AIUI- a stiff mast with the right luff curve offers the better technical solution for ease of use and performance, but frankly this is only secondhand information that seems credible to me as a layman when I almost chipped in the savings on a Finn last year.  

But 'best' is a funny word isn't it.... If North Sails and Hyde have both agreed that dacron is the 'best' solution for these specific masts, then read into that what you will. 

'Best' could be a point on the cost vs performance vs longevity matrix that makes the most commercial sense for all parties.... especially if we follow a Hewlett-Packard approach of seeing the value chain around the consumables rather than the hardware itself.  Or best could mean that it really is in the consumer interest to 'get over' plastic is fantastic when it comes to sail design and this is a cheap, effective solution that is more than adequate to realise a massive improvement to sailing experience over say, the Laser, not that this boat is targeting that market.  

Lots of ifs, possiblys and maybes.... for a rig that isn't even the final production version.  However as acid test market research goes, I know Martin and the gang have the strength of character and resolve to take this minor criticism here in the context of an otherwise fantastic reception to a great overall package.  I hope they can contrast it with the feedback face to face from the weekend before making their final decisions on where to go.  

I know it's easy to write off the small forum collective as a bunch of 'moaning minnies', but maybe we are just a little more candid than the standard dinghy show waller who smiles nicely, asks the right questions and then beetles back to the GP14 classifieds ads when he gets home for his Horlicks.  


Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Mar 14 at 3:27pm
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by JimC

The Laser rigs will doubtless be going up in price if they ever manage to agree on a plastic topmast, and low purchase price/higher running costs is the way everything from cars downwards is sold these days. In dinghies it makes for a low entry cost which is scarcely a bad thing.

LIKE
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5556575859 114>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy