R Speculation

Are different dinghy classes really like different sports? Or is dinghy sailing more like Rugby Union, in the sense that there is a position for every size of person? Obviously, the comparison breaks down that that point.

Sailing in the UK has never been about the situation Chris 249 describes. People sail the boats they want to, not the boats they are told to, except for one pretty small area of the sport, the Olympic Pathway. If people want to sail a boat that isn't the Laser, then why shouldn't they, and why shouldn't some design a boat for them to choose if they wish?

RS have a track record of producing boats people want to sail. Whatever you think of the Feva and Tera, they have made huge inroads into the children's sailing market, and because of that have been recognised as youth classes in the UK, and I think elsewhere - not the other way round.

Who knows, maybe in 5 years the Aero5 will have displaced the Laser 4.7 as the small youth boat, as people move up from Teras, and in a few more the Aero7 as the Youth/small adult boat as they grow. From there, maybe the Aero9 will have caught on enough worldwide to be considered as the replacement for the Laser as an Olympic class, and all because more kids enjoyed sailing the Tera at age 8 than they did the Oppi.

On the other hand, maybe the Aero will become another niche class in the UK club scene and med sailing centre market, fighting for scraps dropped from the Laser table.

Either way, RS have the perfect right to design and market the boat, rather than think, oh, we mustn't, we might upset the Laser juggernaut.

Originally posted by yellowwelly Originally posted by hum3 Originally posted by yellowwelly   RS brought windsurfing into their marketing brochure- inviting the comparison. They could have just said they were working with a composites supplier for the spars.   OK - fair enough.  I read it as 'Hey, we're using people who know what they're doing to build our masts' rather than 'we're using windsurf masts, so we're obliged to use a laminate windsurf type sail but will try and con you into believing that something else is better for reasons that we don't want to disclose'.  I didn't say they were conning anyone, I simply think that it's a big claim to say that laminate films don't work on bendy carbon rigs... especially when citing windsurfing as the innovation driver.  The only soft sails I've seen on windsurf boards have been on very basic beginner/kid equipment or stand-up paddle boards- neither of which I'd even vaguely associate with performance orientation.   And as others have highlighted, laminate sails appear on plenty of flexible rigged unstayed unarigs- the Finn, D-One, OK being obvious examples, with the 'rumoured film sail' for the Laser and the Hansen Laser turbo kit being another. There would be a sense of major irony, if by taking a chunk of Laser market share (enough for baby fingers to notice anyway), this accelerates the acceptance of some kind of laminate/carbon top section relaunch.  Then ask yourself if the average punter (or the IOC) which one looks more modern and accessible- the 3 separate dacron-based new classes under the Aero programme, or the Laser with a nominal performance upgrade for sub $1000 in 'real terms':

Solo is fully battened  .

I agree totally, hence the 'enough for baby fingers to notice'- we could also acknowledge what Martin Wadhams stated on SA this morning that they are not targeting the Laser market.  I hope he doesn't mind a cross quote/paraphrase... 'not everyone sails Lasers'.

"Originally posted by ChrisI

Pitching the boat at the whole of the Laser market....
And good on them for doing so..... it's about time someone did.

Can I respectfully but strongly disagree? Arguably, those who aim at the Laser (and Opti) are doing something very bad for the sport when they attack the only two really worldwide classes we have."

Chris 249... I'll edit my comment - I should have said that "I'm surprised its taken so long to happen" - I don't mean to attack anyone in sailing. I'm absolutely sure that the Laser is not the cause of the sports ills - it is arguably the boat that has introduced the most people to the sport, and indeed was an incredible ground breaking design when it was introduced. It is also a great boat for - and the most popular class here on - the river Thames in the middle of London. But my point really revolves around competition being ultimately good for the sport.

How this one may end up is of course not yet clear at all. Maybe there will be big inroads into the worldwide Laser fleet. But maybe quite the reverse - maybe on realising they have some serious direct competition Laser will update their product, alter their pricing strategy etc etc, and thereby increase their dominance. Certainly their position with two designs being Olympic classes seems to me to make their position almost impregnable (.... and btw I strongly support this position in as much as these two classes provide the lowest access costs to Olympic competition of any of the classes and give sailors from the most number of countries a real chance - they may be the only reason sailing is still in the Olympics!).

But you mention Optis in the same breath as Laser. I think the situation is quite different here with a whole range of manufacturers making boats. This is quite a different model to Laser and I think has some very different outcomes.