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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: R Speculation
    Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by yellowwelly

So a laminate cloth doesn't work on windsurf style rigs?    I better go tell all my windsurf buddies to fire up the dacron again...


(the mast is coming from, I think, reglass in Italy - the MaverX windsurf masts are exceptional btw)




Oh ... someone better tell Team GBR ...



maybe Serben gave them a bit of advice after test sailing the boat.....  you need dacron boys, Larry won't listen, but you guys should.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 3:21pm
Finn masts are available in multiple flex profiles- as is the RS Aero:


Working closely with a world-leading carbon fibre tube manufacturer (thelargest windsurfer mast and fishing rod manufacturer worldwide) we have produced the three rigs using a common top-mast and boom, yet radically differing stiffness bottom sections that are still compatible with the top-mast. The differing bend at deck level and stiffness of the three rigs ensure the boat remains well balanced, without resorting to a permanently pre-bent lower section for the smallest sail. 


Now I'm not calling bullsh*t, but if you know much about windsurf masts, then it's the top section which usually has the most variety in stiffness- soft top, constant curve or hard top.  Sail makers then cut the luff curve to suit the bend style of their preferred mast profile- it get's very technical on slalom circuits, there's even the IMCS system to measure mast bend for windsurfing gear.   

That RS statement basically reads to me 'fed up with bent alloy radial rig masts... bin your Laser' rather than anything with significant R&D credibility around rig design.

AIUI- the reason for the top mast section varying it do with the twist off profile- gust response, then following that, leech tension.  And we use varying downhaul tension depending on the rider weight... light sailors and heavy sailors conventionally using a lot more than medium weight riders, but for two very different reasons - one to depower, one to gain stability and wind range from carry a bigger sail.

Calling Graeme- one thing's for sure, he knows not a lot about much in dinghydom, but on this topic (mast bend and luff tubes) he's one of the best researched windsurf race sailors in the country and his custom sails are something very special indeed....





Edited by yellowwelly - 03 Mar 14 at 3:23pm
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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

Finn mast is massively stiff remember. I believe the aero is very flexible. Oh and the RS 300 is dacron... for about 10 inches back from the luff- its there to give stretch. 



Yes, it's clearer on the black sail below. It's dacron near the luff to help cope with the huge mast bend when the kicker's cranked on - the rest of the sail is laminate.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 3:45pm
Steve and Simon, thanks for the input, looks like the 100 is the same set up but it doesn't get RS out of jail, if they have a solution for it why not implement it?

Is this a better example?  Byte C2 can't see any dacron here.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 3:52pm
C2 is fully battened.

The 100 is carbon, but has stays which limit the flex.

I am sure that you could do something other than Dacron, but it worked well on the one I sailed, as Rupert said, has a long life and is a pretty easy step out of a Laser, which must be a consideration.


Edited by SimonW99 - 03 Mar 14 at 3:54pm
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 3:57pm
hell, even if it's just keeping the costs down why not at this price???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

hell, even if it's just keeping the costs down why not at this price???


So there is moaning about it being Dacron but I'm sure there would be moaning if it was a Carbon sail adding an extra £800 to the price.
Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 4:37pm
There's moaning about them using specious bull**** when "we went with dacron as it will be cheaper and we can pass some of the saving onto the customer" would be well received.
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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 4:40pm
What I got told on the stand was that the Dacron sail was more expensive than the Mylar equivalent.
Amongst a few other things that I chose not to really listen to.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by tgruitt

Originally posted by yellowwelly

hell, even if it's just keeping the costs down why not at this price???


So there is moaning about it being Dacron but I'm sure there would be moaning if it was a Carbon sail adding an extra £800 to the price.

There is no moaning about it being dacron, nor is there moaning about the price. It is the statement that you can't put anything other than dacron on a bendy carbon mast, just needs a bit of explaining. 

I am sure that the Halo had an original carbon set up before they went tin, I think the Icon did stuff with non tapered carbon masts as well, Simon has explained that floppy stayed boats or fully battened is do-able.

So are we condemned to an opaque sail with an unstayed carbon stick, or is it a cost cover up as some are implying?




Edited by Telltale - 03 Mar 14 at 4:50pm
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