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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

But let us be in no doubt that RS were a power for good and have reflected the rapid changes in the way the both society and the sport of dinghy sailing has developed.

D

interesting your choice of using the past tense.  Confused
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 2:54pm
Imagine ..

A (dinghy) world without real choice ..... and only one supplier or very few suppliers.   Think it through ...... take your time.  Keep thinking if you need to ! 

All right that's enough time.   No it really does not look that good does it.   Now just be grateful you are in a market with multiple suppliers and classes and a bit of real choice.  That's better.... chill ...and next time the red mist appears all around just go sailing. Wink

Mike L.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 2:54pm
It wasn't just Hitler who burned books, what's this about an MR book, I'm running out of logs..
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 3:08pm
Dougal, given the total nonsense I was writing in that post (yes, the Laser shares a few design cues from the Kirby 14s, hardly makes it a copy, does it?) I find it interesting that you jump in to defend the Merlin - but then maybe you wanted to get a plug in for your book! And fair dues, it was a less convoluted connection than some we have seen on here.

So, the Aero - being a Jo Richards design, we should be seeing echos of his boats gone by - but, inexpert as I am, I'm not. No Illusion, no Dead cat bounce or any other N12 - can't say about Full Pelt. I'm more seeing the Q'ba, a Paul Handley design, which suggests to me that RS were looking for an in house look. Not sure how that ties in with the boat originally being developed elsewhere, though?
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 3:11pm
Well said Mike! Lose any builder and the sport will be the poorer.
And as for you Gruff, sorry, the book isn't for you. It is not the big words that would puzzle your inbreed Kentish intellect, nor your inability to comprehend the detailed hull line drawings that show how hull design has been optimized over an extended period of time. Instead, what would confound you is the reporting on how, for 70 years now, sailors have been attracted to the class because of the mix of top flight competition afloat, yet friendliness ashore. I'm sure that your in house Merlin sailors will have a copy, they might even let you look at the pictures (as the book will set a new standard for the photos used, just about every top photographer as donated shots for the work) but they'd have to explain them to you and with the limited attention span.....well, you'd be lost after Chapter 1. Seriously, now that the book is done and the 505 book is already underway, have a quick peek at the book at the dinghy show, you might even have some (grudging) respect for the boat afterwards! (or, alternatively, you could buy a copy and use it as a footstool at the show so that you can manage to look into the cockpits of various boats! hohoho. D
Dougal H
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Blimey, no one design versions of development classes... bye bye Firefly, Lark, Graduate, Tasar, all the assys, Laser (which used as a basis the lines of one of Kirby's 14s).

Virtually all 2 handers would be gone, with the influence of the 14 and N12 in the UK and the Aussie development classes way down south. Can we keep the Fireball? Might have to keep the French classes, though I suspect development class influence can be found there if you know the history.

The Merlin is also a gonner, of course, being simply a clinker built 14.

There really is some nonsense spouted on here.

Good on RS for having the willingness to stick their necks out and build boats that not only do people want, but can also afford. They have got where they are by hard work and good thinking, and if there have been less successful boats along the way, at least they are looking for areas to move into. And I've never owned an RS boat, so can hardly be described as a fanboy, just giving credit where it is due.

Rupert, sorry if I wasn't being clear, I am saying that all boats have forerunners and I have no issue at all with lots of different boats being available. My point was that having a largish (by grubby market standards Sleepy) manufacturer churning out reasonably good value strict one design boats over a 20-30 year period was a good thing overall for both the sport and time strapped sailors who don't want the chequebook warfare of some development classes. 

I love seeing interesting development boats, but when you are talking fleet racing i like the SMOD approach. The other way works - just look at Solo's. But, for a boat with the whippet like speed of a sloth I find the incremental redesign path a pain. If you bought a solo five years ago, your hull, rig and sails are probably all now considered out of date and thats not fun. If you are talking cutting edge stuff like the moths then its very different.

I think all designs benefit from a remodel say every 10 years or so, but new hull designs each year are just irritating...
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 3:31pm
Goodness even i dont think RS are the devil in different clothing.  They offer a range of boats that meets the modern sailors needs.  I dont think there is anything wrong with them developing new options for people.  In fact one thing most people enjoy is variety in the market place.  Albeit i can see how others think variety is to the detriment of flet racing.  To me it helps push establish classes forward so everyone is a winner really.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 8:26pm
Wasn't the 400 a very innovative boat, in that it was aimed at being a modern version of the classic dinghy, at a time when there was a bewildering belief in many quarters that skiff types were the future?

For example, Yachting World did a feature about the new style of dinghies which noted that the 400 was basically very different to the other adult boats on test, which consisted (IIRC) of the 5000, Buzz, Boss, 600 and B14E. I haven't got my notes to hand but I'm fairly sure that Morrison and RS also said that the 400 was basically aiming at a different market to the contemporary skiff types.

Given the short lived nature of most of its contemporaries, one wonders what could have happened if the 400 had not been built - would people by saying these days that all new classes die in the way that the 5000, Buzz, Boss etc died? Did the success of the 400 lead to the popular "new" classes like the 200, 2000, etc?

But from the Laser sailor's perspective, there seems to be a silver lining in the Devoti/RS battle; their competition may split the new boat buyers into two smaller classes, rather than one big class that could actually seriously threaten the Laser in some countries, and therefore rob the sport of one of the only adult class that is truly sailed world wide.



Edited by Chris 249 - 27 Nov 14 at 8:27pm
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 9:14pm
To me the D One is like a giant low rider moth, say a magnum 5 or 6, but with a solid wings and a kite.  Lovely.
the same, but different...

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Joined: 27 Nov 14
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Posts: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ds2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 14 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by Chris 249



But from the Laser sailor's perspective, there seems to be a silver lining in the Devoti/RS battle; their competition may split the new boat buyers into two smaller classes, rather than one big class that could actually seriously threaten the Laser in some countries, and therefore rob the sport of one of the only adult class that is truly sailed world wide.


Comparing either of these new boats to a laser is like comparing a modern sports car to a vintage 4 litre Bentley.
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