Laser topmasts

Originally posted by Iain C Originally posted by seamonkey - New deck mold with rounded side decks for "comfortable" hiking the transom corners rounded off - Carbon top mast with a nice new lasting sail - Vertical rudder; same blade just move the hole - Controls lead to the sides rather than on the centre - Same hull shape and performance   But then you would totally ruin the whole point of having a Laser in the first place!  The whole point, and why I would consider getting one, is the supposed "level playing field"   So let's just say then that I smoke another Fireball in a windy race on the sea.  I've just beaten someone fair and square.  Apart from the fact that had I not had my wide bow hull (versus their narrow one), my epoxy/kevlar construction (versus thier wooden one) my nice bendy Cumulus mast (versus their stiffer one) my 2:1 girlie mainsheet (which meant on the last beat I was'nt so tired) my adjustable strut/jib bars and lordy knows what else, it might have been different.  Surely the main reason people buy Lasers is so you don't get this kinda stuff.    As soon as you implement the changes above, you ruin the whole point of a Laser.  "Yeah, well done, but you would not heave beaten me if it was'nt for your balanced rudder, your carbon top section, your easy hiking decks and your controls where you never needed to stop hiking to reach them"  You can't say the hull is the same...sure, they might tank test the same but the overall performance is about much more than that in a dinghy, especially a small physical singlehander!   As a design of boat, the Laser is an outdated, horrible, hideous little machine.  As a beach boat, it's great.  As a one design racing class, it's totally unbeatable.  People would say the same about Cav's Tour de France steed, as it could be made lighter and faster.  But there needs to be a benchmark.  Surely whicever one of the bewildering number of companies and associations it is that is responsible for the thing, should say "oops...XD vang...my bad.  Here, have a new rule which limits the amount of travel/purchase you can have.  Now let's get back to sailing."   Where does it stop?  If you really want to make the mast not break, try adding some wire to hold it up.  You'd probably have to reinforce the deck though...and if you did that the mast would probably try and dissappear out the bottom of the boat.   If you ask me Laser should do some pretty serious back-pedalling on the XD vang and sort out their quality control.  And how any boat can EVER be called one design when it does not carry lead is a complete joke!

Your world is very black & white ... there are shades of grey for many ...

Controlled evolution that improves the user experience, makes eqipment last longer and protects the integrity of the racing is a good thing IMHO ... changes don't have to make the playing field unlevel.

Do you really think the Fireball has not benefitted from the changes they have made over the years?

Originally posted by seamonkey Your world is very black & white ... [snip] Do you really think the Fireball has not benefitted from the changes they have made over the years?

Iain's bang on the money for me. Whilst I like a boat that I can fiddle with and tweak, I think its entirely healthy for the sport to have a class or three about that folk can just dump in the dinghy park, jump in and go racing every week or so without having to think about anything off the water other than renewing insurace and club subs every year. As soon as you introduce "improvement", however controlled, you lose that.

Yes, I know there's much whinging about bent top masts, and sails that need replacing every six weeks and all that, but as far as the thirty odd reasonably active Lasers at our club are concerned I see very little of that. I'm sure most of those boats are unmaintained from year to year. We have people who are top ten at Masters Worlds level, and even they don't seem to break and replace stuff as fast as you'd think happens from some of the posts here.

There are good arguments that can be made to counter all of Seamonkeys points: for instance the "heavy if you sail badly" rudder enourages, even mandates, better technique.

Edited by JimC - 21 Nov 11 at 1:20pm

Seamonkey, I feel you are just contradicting yourself.  You say that your proposed changes would make the boat "nicer to sail" but performance would be identical.

Edited by Iain C - 21 Nov 11 at 4:48pm

Oh FFS ... at a championship everyone has the latest & greatest stuff anyway ... so it makes no odds.

At club level the difference in helm skill are so massive a minor update would be irrelevant compared to the differences in ability.

I just think the boat has evolved over the years for the better and they should continue; not go backwards as you suggest.

seamonkey I would agree with the first statement but the problem that can occur affects the majority which form the second statement. they are the people who make up the bulk of the class and should be better supported by the class and their views represented better. once something comes in at the top it will filter down through the ranks whatever. there isn't a problem with updates per se to keep something improving, but it is the perceived costs that go with it that are. everything that gets attached to a laser seems to attract a massive premium that is unfair on the masses to satisfy the needs of a few at the top. maybe that is a penalty of the Olympic status and if it is then it is a crying shame.