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Tomahawk

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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tomahawk
    Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 12:58pm
I'm smelling something there...

From what I saw this foil effectively is a plaining surface. So when flying you are plaining on the foil rather than the hull. The stepped upper surface to the 'T' of the foil is high drag / high lift getting the boat up early on to the plain ( 'T' foil plain ) reducing wetted surface area, skin friction. But there is still quite a high proportion of drag because the foil is being used in a very different way to how the moths fly. and for that reason I can't see it being faster than a moth, other than when they aren't sailing because it's too windy for them. And if that's the case my son's Optimist is faster than a Moth too.
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 3:01pm
Jack, its definately a hydrofoil, not a planing surface.  The hydrodynamic principles behind the design are sound, and the photos prove it works, it will be a case of refining the boat as a whole I think, I hope it works out, it could be the closest thing yet to an 'everyman' foiler, game on!
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 3:28pm
Please explain what you believe to be the principles Phil. I would be interested to hear how you would describe the differences between these two types of hydrofoil. As you are quite right, it is a Hydrofoil. But to my understanding works in quite a different way to the Moth current foil configuration. And if understand that, and I think I do. To suggest it could pace or be faster than a Moth downwind smells of marketing BS.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great. But I'm just not keen on hype. It's an interesting enough boat without adding a pissing contest into the mix.
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 3:38pm
hum3 made the point correctly.

Downwind in waves the mothies have to be careful not to push too hard or the foil can lift out. As the foil leaves the water the lift disappears as does the pitch stability. The rudder suddenly finds itself producing more lift than the dagger T, that linked with the large moment generated from the rig, increases the nose down pitching moment, and the boat submarines. Its not quick!!!

In a real blow in wavy conditions the Tomahawk design should enable the sailor to really put their foot down simply balancing fore-aft pitch with the rig loads with the reduced tendency to crash out of waves.

As has been said, upwind it will struggle to stay with moths and 600ff. It looks like it will need serious 'Veal heel' in order to maintain height upwind as the daggerboard isnt very long, so will rely on horizontal section heeled to windward to generate height.

Interesting boat and it will be even more interesting to see if it catches on.
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by craiggo



In a real blow in wavy conditions the Tomahawk design should enable the sailor to really put their foot down 


Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

other than when they aren't sailing because it's too windy for them.


Yes what I said.
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Isis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 4:15pm
Does anybody who was at the show have a better explanation of this 'totaly new type of hydrofoil'?

From what ive seen it looks like the ride control is provided by the foil loosing lift within a chord length from the surface and that the stepped section has been optimised for this... but this is hardly new technology and there are lots of claims of 'revolution' that seem hard to back up.

What am I missing?


Edited by Isis
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Ross View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ross Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 4:29pm
I'd put money on a Moth beating the arse of it in most
conditions.
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Chris Turner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Turner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 5:10pm

Ross, you just don't get it.

It is a concept, it is not meant to beat Moths, if we wanted to do that we can but you couldn't sail it.  This boat is for the everyman not the skinny chap that wants to go for a swim before he sails (or she)

It can be launched in the normal dinghy manor and sailed by the average Jo, it is meant to be easy and fun, not faster.

Try Launching a moth up here in the depths of winter, you will soon want to make it easier!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote silverwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 5:16pm

so Chris, if it is meant for the "average Jo", is it quicker upwind or easier than a Phantom? And what weight do you anticipate your average Jo being to sail it?

 

 

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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 09 at 5:38pm
If it's no faster than 'X' why do it? Other than to prove you can ride a unicycle? To make sense of the foil it has to be the fastest single handed hiker SMOD otherwise why? Or if it isn't it then becomes an arbitrary racing vehicle that proves you are the best at learning a specific technique. Fundamentally there has to be a performance gain for it to make sense. I might add I'm sure there will be.... just not as much as a Moth.
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