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What classes will survive ?

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    Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 3:54pm
Interesting no-ones mentioned sponsorship as being important to a
class's future.

Sponsorship by Carlsberg played a huge role in building the Mistral One
Design Class in the eighties.

Does Fatface & Gul not play that much of a role in boosting RS's ability to
back their class with infrastructure and finance if only for communication
and prizes? It's a question, I don't know, have never been to an RS event.

If only in their ability to market and PR, but they (RS) come across as way
and ahead the leading class to a newcomer like myself, are there better
attended more successful classes?

Do they offer much for a potential sponsor, on the face of it exposure to
60 singlehanded boats isn't exactly enough to justify thousands of
pounds unless your product has direct potential in that niche?

Whereas a couple of hundred folk in a twin crewed boat such as the
suggestion of a class for single trap multi class racing seems a far wider
net to cast, whoever suggested that has it spot on. What was the name of
that Assymetric organisation?
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iansmithofotley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 4:06pm

Hi Graeme,

Did you mean this:

http://www.tasa.org.uk/ ?

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 4:34pm
TASA - thanks alzheimers setting in,

That could be the vehicle for the sort of class being spoken of earlier, a
catch all for boats like the 4000, Iso, Buzz etc, the problem comes from
the fact that those classes were adopted early on by the sort of avant
guard "Early Adopter" culture that has now moved on for ever faster techy
thrills.

The traditional Syms will stay the way they are dwindling but at a slower
pace, and unless something comes along that is both fast enough to
tempt the pace setters yet reasonable enough to helm without having to
give up your day job, it will inevitably go the same way.

The windsurfing disease was limiting itself to one wind condition, planing
only, the sailing problem appears to be limiting itself to light conditions
with over powered rigs and high levels of apparent wind and not too many
waves thanks.

The idea that folk like Si Reynolds should go over the handlebars shortly
after rounding the weather mark, something he'd never have done on a
windsurfer, says to me the class will eventually be superceded once
something happens along with apparently more or equal performance
and the ability to get round a course in a reasonable breeze.

And I guess that's what has happened to those others (I dont know this,
I'm just making that assumption, wasn't the Boss supposed to be the
performance boat to out perform all others at one time?)

A good example of a class appearing to be able to re invent itself has to
be the International 14, I can't think how long that has been the boy
racers chariot of choice. O.K. on Queen Mary, but useless in the Channel.

Surely what is required is a boat that is equally adept at performing in a
Force 1 on Q.M. and a Force 6 in the Channel. Anytime, anywhere and
with the possibility to continue development in the future with a class not
tied to a builder and a rig open to any sailmaker and open to
development.


Anyway you play it, it still comes up Alto imho.

But what it needs is a showcase so folk can see and appreciate what I
mean.

Not everyone has my clarity of vision.
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Chas 505 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chas 505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 4:43pm

Hello GRF....me again......did you say force 1 on QM to force 6 in the channel.....wonder what class could do all that then?

I'll give you a clue - you're about to spend serious race time observing the transom of one at your local club...!

 

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Work Hard; Play Hard; Sail a 505
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 4:50pm

I think a good sponsor is extremly helpful.

As for going over the handle bars that is all part of the fun ... you are showing your age grumpf

Those downwinds on the first day were fantastic and being of the edge is what makes us all feel alive.

Who would be interested in downhill mountain biking if there was no risk of a crash?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Chas 505

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Hello GRF....me again......did you say force 1 on QM to force 6 in the channel.....wonder
what class could do all that then?


I'll give you a clue - you're about to spend serious race time observing the transom of one
at your local club...!


 

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Yes exactly, but then you'd need to be an experienced techy headed trad numpty to sail it,
which those boys are, be sure to give them every setting under the sun they have reams of
them.



We shall enjoy the challenge.


A bit more even handed than at present

And with us at 930


And them at what is it 850 with a monster kite?

Or 900 ish?

Whatever, we shall call their boat "The Lawn"

And ours "The Mower"

There will be no more reading the yachting times and drinking coffee mid race.

They will come to know the meaning of Total Humiliation.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 5:29pm

I would like to make several points.

Classes that rely on the manufacturer to organise events and run the class will only last as long as the company has a commercial interest in them

Some classes last because they offer fantastic racing. If you want true International (that is sailing against people who don't speak English) racing in a 2 man hiking class then get a Snipe. Then spend the summer trailing round Europe from the Agarve to Moscow. A boat for those who have a passion for tactics, rather than looking for thrills and spills.

The Star will continue, even without the Olympics, because it is still the only genuine International 2 man boat for heavy weights, and the class structure is fantastic. The Dragon is far more popular now than when it was an Olympic class, because of the outstanding sailing calendar it offers to those who can afford it.

Significantly, established keel boat classes seem to be thriving. I wold suggest that many club racers, especially on the coast, prefer to have some ballast under them.

The Wayfarer's great strength is that sailing schools continue to buy and use them - they are still often the first sailing experience for adults. Now the price is right the class looks set for a revival. New sailors can find cheap second hand boats as soon as they have finished their course. But then racing Wayfarers always were in a minority in the class.

There is an increasing tendancy for the dinghy to be the second or third boat. I know many people who sail big boats, but keep a dinghy for the frostbites and the occasional open event. Unsurprisingly, these people sail simple, easy to maintain boats ... Lasers, Ents. The boat may often be quite old, but well maintained. A class is in it's last throws when these "second boaters" start leaving. This is happening to the Ent, here in Ireland.

One fascinating trend is for clubs to (often informally) limit the arms race. So some clubs will only race veteran FF15s, and I believe Rickmansworth only sail the classic wooden 14s.

All these are important sectors of the dinghy scene - some distance from the trendy, must have the latest fashion trend scene that does seem to hog the limelight.

All in all, the dinghy scene is a complex place

 

Gordon

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by dics

Hence the damn right refusal, no, no-way, get lost, sailors are not entitled to opinions and all the other bull that came from that corner an a subject not so long ago.

That attitude doesn't seem to have done the Laser too much harm though does it?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chas 505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 6:02pm

906 GRF, but I like the attitude.

Windward leeward, a 505 sails to handicap - around the cans will struggle with the newer 6m luff kites..!

Somehow they never seem to move the h/cap.

 

Life is too short.
Work Hard; Play Hard; Sail a 505
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DavidG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 6:48pm
Dinghy racing is only as good as the competition.  I actually think it is more satisfying to follow where the competition is rather than blindly stick with a class.

I believe that the classes that are having difficulties are those that have failed to target club racing, since this is the foundation of any classes pyramid, without a good spread of clubs actively supporting a class, support is unlikely to feed through to open meetings and championships.  Any class that only exists for open meetings and championships is built on sand. 

If you look at the successful adult classes at the moment you will see that this is the case.

Both clubs and classes should embrace this fact.  Clubs could help by only supporting class racing at the expense of handicap racing which is rarely satisfactory and should only be considered as a last resort.

I currently race a Solo at Salcombe, 20 boats club racing here last weekend, while 100+ at Inland Championships, I rest my case.

David
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