New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: O'Pen Bic
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

O'Pen Bic

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>
Author
Blobby View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 May 04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 779
Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: O'Pen Bic
    Posted: 23 Aug 06 at 1:19am

Originally posted by Philsy

Just been doing some Oppy training today and I realised one of its
shortcomings - the lack of a self-draining cockpit. Capsize one and you're
buggered until you've bailed all the water out.

Phil

a quote from the Bethwaite's site about their 9er "Learn to sail not to bail..."

Face it, in a blow you don't even have to capsize just the slop coming in over the side will fill the boat up.

One step forwards, 2 steps back...
Back to Top
NickA View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 784
Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 06 at 8:59pm

That's 'cause its a crappy old badly designed boat - that's only sailed at all 'cause the RYA keep supporting it, so lots of kids keep sailing it so the RYA keep supporting it so lots of kids keep sailing it ...............

2nd hand oppy £2000 at our club.  More carbon than a cherub!  Still rubbish.

Probably delete this when I sober up

Nope, stone cold sober and they're still rubbish.



Edited by NickA
Back to Top
Philsy View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 344
Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 06 at 3:52pm
Just been doing some Oppy training today and I realised one of its
shortcomings - the lack of a self-draining cockpit. Capsize one and you're
buggered until you've bailed all the water out.

Phil
Back to Top
Matt Jackson View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 04
Location: Darlington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 962
Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 06 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Whether people like it or not, the biggest (therefore best) network of sailing clubs for kids have fleets of oppies, toppers cadets mirrors etc- not these new boats like the tera or bic open- why dilute and detriment the future of our sport.

So were the Oppy, Topper, Cadet and Mirror designed at the same time? No. I bet when the Topper came out there was people just as aginst it because it split fleets. And you forgot the Pico, which is as ubiquitous as the Topper in some clubs. New designs aren't bad as long as they bring something new to the table and that new thing could be (to us) very superficial.

I, for one, think the Tera looks the business and the O'pen Bic looks pretty exciting too, but it is different. It's a big market and kids are more market aware than I ever was, even though I could tell you all the PYs of all the boats at my club (and probably sail areas and hull weights too) when I was 12. The bigger the choice the bigger range of people you can suit.

Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
Back to Top
getafix View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2143
Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 06 at 9:14am
Kids love Oppy sailing, and why not? It's simple, forgiving and 'easy' to sail but provides miles of scope for the kids who really want to go racing - you'd be hard pushed to find a class anywhere which offers bigger fleet experience at such a young age.

As for learning to sail and race in old classes being a questionable decision, I think it's good that new classes are being introduced but we shouldn't overlook the great benefits offered by the Oppy, Mirror, Topper and Cadet, namely:

  • Low cost of entry - you can pick up a 2nd hand boat cheap
  • Low cost of progression - you can pick up a competitive race boat 2nd hand
  • Simple rig = concentrate on the sailing and tactics
  • Simple rig = no "arms race"
I know there's lots of specialist bits for these classes but they don't make that much difference to actual time round the course compared to boat handling and tactics - you'll lose more time trawling your spinnaker on your mirror than you would make up by having the most expensive foils in the class history.

There's a good side to all the tweaky kit as well - check out the keen racers at your club, they love the carbon tiller extensions and custom mast fittings - we love 'em on our boats because you can't be a racer if you don't love the tinkering that goes with - it's a stepping stone to the physce that you develop to be successful - if you think you're going to do well because you're confident in your boat, you most probably will beat the team with their heads in the boat wandering about the water coming in round the leaky bailer!

The Open Bic is the latest in a long line of boats to come and challenge these established favorites - most have failed to establish themselves this side of the channel because clubs have organically developed a 'nursery' system based around the established boats - the message should be, join a good club and enjoy yourself.

The Oz and NZ boys and girls who grow up on the old classes there seem to do just fine once the few who continue to international level start competing against our young sailors.

The new technology boats make a real difference when you hit the teens - I was bored silly by the idea of 420 sailing but if someone had showed me and my mates the 29er we'd have bitten your arm off - instead we got into second hand Nat 12's, Fireballs, Cherubs, IC's and Moths because you could pick them up for around £500 and blat off across the lake in a cloud of spray without needing a small gale to get going!

Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one
Back to Top
Philsy View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 344
Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 06 at 9:15pm
Some interesting points.

I've nothing against Oppies (my daughter has one and has learnt a lot with
it) but things do move on. We don't learn to drive in 40 year old designs of
cars, so is it right for our kids to sail old-fashioned boats? (that's a question,
by the way, not a statement).

I like the Oppy as much as the next parent but I do think that some image-
conscious kids (of which there are plenty) would be put off by the look of the
thing.

Phil
Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 06 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by NickA

We'd all be sailing espensive clinker built tubs (competitively of course!)

   rant over..

The Merlins had quite a good turn out at their nationals this year ...

Back to Top
tack'ho View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 08 Feb 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1100
Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 06 at 12:59pm
Its a good point, If you allow for Jim Cs favourite statistic about the time spread in a nationals fleet you could actually sail quite a few boats off one start, I always start with the lasers/radials when I can, they may be rated quicker on handicap but its all even on the start and is good practice for opens and nationals.  Sometimes I even beat some of them, whcih is nice.
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
Back to Top
NickA View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 784
Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 06 at 12:07pm

As most club sailors will testify, you don't HAVE to only race other identical boats.  Sure it's more fun in one way, but having a personal choice of boat you like and fit is also good.

Having learnt double handed in picos, my kids refused point blank to get in anything as nasty as an Oppy - and dropped out of racing as a result.

Terras, opens and optis could easily sail together if only the RYA weren't so blinkered.  Likewise toppers & picos, and lasers & splash/flashes.

If the "don't split the fleets" fans got their way, we'd all be sailing espensive clinker built tubs (competitively of course!)

   rant over..

Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 06 at 10:34am
Originally posted by turnturtle

This is all a very adult intepretation about boat selection...  from my own experience, kid sailing was about doing something on a social level too- sailing has always been a very inclusive sport: mixed sex, mixed age & most importantly mixed ability where kids at the back of the fleet are as welcome as those at the front.... you need big fleets across the country for this to continue and our young sailors (grassroots/lifeblood) to get the best out of the sport.  Whether people like it or not, the biggest (therefore best) network of sailing clubs for kids have fleets of oppies, toppers cadets mirrors etc- not these new boats like the tera or bic open- why dilute and detriment the future of our sport.

Okay, you may say I'm resistant to change; but I don't beleive in fixing something if it isn't broken.  There's nothing tame in sailing oppies, cadets, mirrors, toppers etc when you're knee-high to a grasshopper and weigh about six stone...  besides any boat which has an 'optional' kicker is hardly a 'step forward' is it? 

Okay it looks 'more modern' than soap box design raced around the streets of florida in the 40s; but to be fair, the numbers speak for itself; how many Concept 303 are out there?  Or 404s... see www.optiworld.org- the homepage says it all and I'm sure the cadet/topper class has an equally impressive alumni to support my argument.

True - but the same also applies to adult sailing and we have seen many new classes.

It's a free market and new products will always appear - some will stand the test of time others won't.

Rick

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy