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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Insurance Tales
    Posted: 07 Apr 18 at 12:35am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed


How insurance companies sort it out between themselves is very foggy indeed. Yes, there's the whole Endeavour vs Juno stuff, but what they actually do to determine liabilities seems very opaque.

For the sort of relatively small claims we have been talking about, it will be dealt with by a quite junior insurance clerk, whose predominant experience will be with motorboat collisions, scant knowledge of IRPCAS for sailing vessels, and probably little or no understanding of RRS.

If its for a breach of the RRS that matches up with IRPCAS, such as port/starboard or windward/leeward it will probably go smoothly. For somethingmore complicated like failing to give room, there may be difficulties.

If a claim is supported by a broker's note explaining the RRS application and/or a written protest decision saying which boat broke what rules that will probably help get a favourable decision (assuming the decision supports the claim). A favourable protest decision, particularly a conclusion that you are exonerated from breaking rules and could not reasonably have avoided collision, will certainly help in any dispute with the insurer.

Whether or not your insurer will pursue the other party for deductibles or other losses arising may depend on the insurance policy and how strongly your broker sticks up for you, or how much of a nuisance you make of yourself.

Edited by Brass - 07 Apr 18 at 12:41am
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patj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 11:35am
Originally posted by 423zero

My club has no protest procedure, other party would have to admit liability.


You sail under the Racing Rules of Sailing don't you?

3 ACCEPTANCE OF THE RULES 3.1 (a) By participating or intending to participate in a race conducted under these rules, each competitor and boat owner agrees to accept these rules.

60.1 A boat may (a) protest another boat, but not for an alleged breach of a rule of Part 2 or rule 31 unless she was involved in or saw the incident; or (b) request redress.

So everyone participating in racing agrees to accept that a protest may be made and to follow the proscribed protest procedure and thus you do have a right to protest and the club has a procedure.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 2:00pm
Patj,
We have nothing set up for such a procedure, no one is assigned to deal with a protest, OOD is in charge of racing on the day but again there is no procedure to follow if someone did protest.
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Patj,
We have nothing set up for such a procedure, no one is assigned to deal with a protest, OOD is in charge of racing on the day but again there is no procedure to follow if someone did protest.
Er... the procedure for a protest is within the rules. So you do have a procedure. The race committee, just appoints a Protest Committee and off you go. 

Part 5 for protest procedure and Part 7 for organising a race (rule 91) http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/WorldSailingRRS20172020-[20946].pdf

Wasn't it your club who paid for enterprise repair out of club funds when it should have been covered by insurance though? 


Edited by mozzy - 11 Apr 18 at 2:18pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 2:31pm
We do not have a race committee, their are only 39 of us, normal race day we have about 8 boats racing, probably another 6 sailing round, most boats racing last year was 14.
I have been a member since 2011 and never seen a protest or a falling out.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 2:39pm
The OOD and their assistant is the race committee. So you do. They go round and find a few people to sit on the protest committee if someone protests. 

A race committee can be one person, a protest committee can be one person.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 2:51pm
At it's best a protest can be an amicable way of resolving an incident. It doesn't have to ba acrimonious and it will be a learning opportunity for all.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 3:15pm
I sail at clubs with a more formal setup and at least half of our members are members of other clubs, clubs that include Blithfield, South Staffs, Chelmarsh to name a few, so we are not strangers to a formal race procedure.
Presumably if we want to sail a destruction derby type race or any other format we all agree to we can ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Presumably if we want to sail a destruction derby type race or any other format we all agree to we can ?

damn well hope so, and FWIW, a club which a) doesn't feel a need to have protest procedure, even if technically it's in some rule book somewhere; and b) a club which couldn't muster the sh*ts to give to form a protest committee even if said rule book could be located; sounds like a nice place to go sailing to me.   Thumbs Up  
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 18 at 4:08pm
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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