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Campaigning with electric cars.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 10:15am
The main issue is type approval, if the vehicle hasn't been approved for towing you are not allowed to tow with it 'simples'. The Leaf is not (nor BTW is the Prius). So it is unlawful to even fit a tow bar to a Leaf. In practice you won't find a tow bar for a Leaf as no manufacturer will make one. I have a 1990 MX5, back then type approval for towing was not required, by the time I bought it in 2000 it was. A few years later I wanted to fit a tow bar but was told that Witter (in this case) did not make one as the car is not type approved for it.
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Phil_1193

Originally posted by ttc546

Dont think you understand the towing weight limits currently imposed for car/caravan combinations and the danger if even 1 extra battery may have... 😁


Perfectly understand it.

The avrage 5-6m caravan weighs circa 1200kg.

The avarage Tesla Model X weighs 2500kg.

Working on the 85% guideline thats easily a few hundred Kg of battery as long as its unifomly distributed

Based on the average dinghy at 150kg with road trailer and crap at best 500kg, thats plenty of scope for batteries in a trailer

Of course the X would need type approval for towing.

BUT get a LandRover they are rated to tow 3500kg, hydrolic link the brakes and its 4000kg, thats alot of caravan and batteries.

Obviously if the caravan was designed to be a mobile battery pack you could make the thing lighter in the first place. Carbonfibre kittchen units and doors?

What we're missing here is that if you are towing a caravan you can't also be towing a boat.......

I have had caravans for probably 40 years, and we camped before that. Once you are touring a caravan if you want to take a boat you must either car top it (which limits your choice of boats) or travel in two cars. I did both at different times but for most of that time I was windsurfing rather than dinghy sailing. It was only when we stopped touring and put the caravan on a seasonal pitch 10 years ago that I got another boat.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 11:21am
So do we have a consensus as to which is the best candidate for our boat travelling needs?

I've been flirting with electric vehicles for several years now, nearly missed the plane in France when we hired one to visit a supplier which was only half the stated range distance away.
I tried a renault Kangoo van, lucky I tried it one february when it was cold and the range literally halved.
Had a Nissan leaf on demo which was better but it was summer.
Was on the verge of buying the Outlander when the subsidy got dropped in April.
We're all solar here with a house battery so charging during the day would be very green, but there is now such a plethora of hybrids and electrics, choosing one is not easy.
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Posts: 78 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons



What we're missing here is that if you are towing a caravan you can't also be towing a boat.......



Never suggested you would.

Suggested IF you towed a caravan, fill the underfloor chassis area with a battery pack.

IF you tow a boat, fill the big empty triangle space on a combi trailer with a (very thin) battery pack

Both could increase range when towing

both individual solutions to the towing range of full electric vehicles

Once they make a full electric Mondeo/ Insignia/ 3 series/ generic euro grot box with a range to match or exceed the circa 300 miles of a Tesla for less than the £75k+ Tesla charge, thats when itll be more important to the average UK human
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 12:29pm
This would solve the range problem but getting a tow bar fitted might be a problem :-
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I have a remote control motor mover on my caravan, so extra weight wouldn't be an issue.
Battery would be enough to counter extra weight and drag of caravan.

But the motor mover is a) specced for the weight of the caravan - not something over double that and b) how much traction will a 4-5" jockey wheel have on even a slightly damp grass caravan pitch?

I just don't think these solutions have practical, let alone commercial, legs.

Yes, at some point in the future towing will be possible with electric vehicles. By that time the mainstream range will be up where Tesla are now, and those towing will have to accept the reduced range that dragging weight and pi55-poor aerodynamics around brings. I don't even think that hybrids will work, because the little ICE won't have the grunt to pull whatever up hills.
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 1:10pm
Motor mover on my caravan is connected to driving wheels, and uses two starter motors.
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 2:11pm
So was mine when I was towing it around. I was told it would pull the 'van up onto a low loader (say 1:5 slope) so pretty good but maybe not with an extra tonne of batteries onboard?

The 4x4 version Rav 4 Hybrid is rated to tow 1650 kg (Toyota's figure) the FWD version only 800kg. Either will pull a boat with ease. The max torque of the electric motor is available from standstill so, in theory, they should make particularly good tow cars.
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 3:31pm
I stand corrected. The only type I've seen worked on the jockey wheel. 
However, who is likely to spend £000's on a tonne or more of hi-tech batteries when they'll be used at best 2 days in 7? And that's only if you travel every weekend throughout the year... Quite apart from the different footprint various caravans and trailers have and the engineering effort that brings. Theft risk from your boat trailer, where the batteries in the triangle formed by the 'A'-Frame will be somewhat exposed? Caravan: axle(s) near the middle so weight distribution OK. Boat trailer: Axle at the back and batteries far outweigh the boat so nose weight becomes yet another issue to overcome. and it only works for combi's so the market is tiny. 
Pure electric just ain't gonna work unless and until the problem of putting energy into the cells in a reasonable time is resolved, and the cost and weight of the things, too.
Anecdotally, hybrid vehicles, in general use, have worse consumption than a halfway decent turbo-diesel, whatever one might think of the devil's fuel.


Edited by Noah - 05 Oct 17 at 3:31pm
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 9:06pm
Feeling a little "bah humbug" over the electric car bandwagon. Hopefully others more knowledgeable will be able to cheer me up.
Hybrids, what's that all about apart from removing emissions from cities? They are heavier and cost more than ICE only cars and over any appreciable distance little to no more economical. Are they as much a way to sell more cars to Guardian readers as anything to cut pollution?
Home charging, how long can that honeymoon last? Domestic electricity carries minimal taxation whereas road fuel carries a lot of tax. If / when there is a major decline in ICE to electric Government will have a large revenue shortfall to make up.
By most accounts the National Grid is close to capacity, after years of efficiency drives for domestic and industry to use less energy there will have to be massive investment to cope with charging the nations private transport vehicles.
Hydrogen. I may have imagined it but I thought I read that Germany was some way to creating a pipeline grid to carry hydrogen. How much research is going into splitting off hydrogen compared to battery and electricity development. ICEs running on liquid hydrogen or electric motors on hydrogen fuel cells? 
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