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RS400atC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 12:23pm
The two clubs I joined last year are positiviely cluttered with under 16 sailors.
That may be a by product of being in towns which are actually some sort of community, and being on the coast.
But yes, it is actually a strength of sailing that you can still be competitive at 55 and beyond, it is accessible to people who are way past a lot of sports, yet it is still useful for fitness,
Those people have the cash, the time and the need.
My old club, we had a whole family join as rank beginners a few years ago.
Dad and son picked up trophies in separate series last year.
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Obviously it's just a marketing stunt using nostalgia to showcase their android smartphones in a crowded market with well established key players.... but who knows, maybe it'll back fire and WhatsApp, Facebook and those f**king pouting lips and sh*t eyeliner selfies on Instagram will be a thing of the past in the very near future.  



Yep, pisses me off too. There are some good un's out there though.

So, what do we have:

 Available on the club member market.
a significant and increasing number of narcissistic, low empathy individuals who can't think much beyond next year because they might not have a job (or a life if we get many more Putins or Trumps)......and who are not likely to volunteer

V's

Current club format membership requirement needs.
Unselfish, good empathy, team players who have enough emotional security to have a long term plan and who will volunteer.

Clearly sailing clubs running on the current volunteer basis are going to be stuffed once you and I have shuffled off. It won't be a sudden transition either, I believe the problem is already occurring at some clubs.

Edit for emphasis.

One of the biggest threats to traditional clubs is the decreasing number of suitable volunteers.




Edited by transient - 28 Feb 17 at 12:32pm
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by transient

Originally posted by turnturtle

Obviously it's just a marketing stunt using nostalgia to showcase their android smartphones in a crowded market with well established key players.... but who knows, maybe it'll back fire and WhatsApp, Facebook and those f**king pouting lips and sh*t eyeliner selfies on Instagram will be a thing of the past in the very near future.  



Yep, pisses me off too. There are some good un's out there though.

So, what do we have:

 Available on the club member market.
a significant and increasing number of narcissistic, low empathy individuals who can't think much beyond next year because they might not have a job (or a life if we get many more Putins or Trumps)......and who are not likely to volunteer

V's

Current club format membership requirement needs.
Unselfish, good empathy, team players who have enough emotional security to have a long term plan and who will volunteer.

Clearly sailing clubs running on the current volunteer basis are going to be stuffed once you and I have shuffled off. It won't be a sudden transition either, I believe the problem is already occurring at some clubs.

Edit for emphasis.

One of the biggest threats to traditional clubs is the decreasing number of suitable volunteers.



actually time to 'fess up.... I'm not in the same boat as you here.  I'm one of the guys who didn't race in 2016 because the 8 races I could have actually turned up for weren't worth the 2 days of duties I would have had to have completed.  So I bailed on it....  nothing to do with the cost of the boat.  I spent more on Snowboarding in the summer than the cost of a 'disposable' Laser ... and my club even offers reasonable enough club boats for hire for the price of a cinema ticket.  The rest of the time I windsurfed, but 2016 was spectacularly poor wind wise for me.  The combined effect... I won't bother renewing in April and will find sailing in other forms going forward.

The report rang very true for me about time sensitivity.  I'd like to think that I might be more time rich in the future, where I would give back a little more to a sailing club - maybe duties, maybe on a committee or something- assuming they still run to the same format.  I just can't see that for about 15 years or so with two kids under 10 and a wife who don't share this particular interest.



Edited by turnturtle - 28 Feb 17 at 1:05pm
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

 
....
actually time to 'fess up.... I'm not in the same boat as you here.  I'm one of the guys who didn't race in 2016 because the 8 races I could have actually turned up for weren't worth the 2 days of duties I would have had to have completed.  So I bailed on it....  nothing to do with the cost of the boat.  I spent more on Snowboarding in the summer than the cost of a 'disposable' Laser ... and my club even offers reasonable enough club boats for hire for the price of a cinema ticket.  The rest of the time I windsurfed, but 2016 was spectacularly poor wind wise for me.

The report rang very true for me about time sensitivity.  I'd like to think that I might be more time rich in the future, where I would give back a little more to a sailing club - maybe duties, maybe on a committee or something.  I just can't see that for about 15 years or so with two kids under 10 who don't share this particular interest.


Sorry to hear that.
But, that would be much the same for other sports in your position.
And sailing will take you back in 15 years or whenever.
Not all clubs have duties. Not all racing needs club membership.
But 8 races a year is quite sparse.
OTOH, you have the snowboarding and the windsurfing, which from sailing's point of view is part of the problem.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 1:21pm
Part of the problem?  Maybe one way to look at it....  I've always approached the windsurfing as the same thing as dinghy sailing for me.  One suits the coast and windier conditions better than the other.... same game though, hence both are off the list for UK-based participation for the next year or two.   

With no viable alternatives that I found equal enjoyment from, then sure, I guess a Laser and the duties would make sense- even if it's only twice a month on average.  I know I'd rather freeze my nuts off on a committee boat writing down PY times, even accurately, than ever kick a football again.  Try as I might, cycling just doesn't have much personal appeal- despite it being so damn easy to participate in and balance with family life- I can see why it poaches sailors and golfers as it has done.  

An evening's snowboarding session provides a place to do something for a few hours that doesn't rely on the weather, nor daylight.  I can even see the kids before I go as the sessions don't start until 8pm.  Have I enjoyed it as much as good races, or good windsurf sessions?  Probably not.  But the overall return on time makes for easier living and the progression is linear as opposed to the creviced plateau I find myself on with liquid watersports.  You need time to get consistency and improvement- a clear run of 6 weeks sailing once or twice a week and I know I'm better for it.  

It also serves as a spring board for family holidays.... we're taking the kids out for a second half term next week.  The overall cost of which is probably equitable to any of the new single handers on display on Saturday... even those on Rodney's stand.   But you can't really compare the costs.... one is a just a selfish toy, the other a complete family experience for all to remember in a beautiful, dare I say, magical location.   

I'd love to know which clubs around here don't have duties.... that'd be a start.  I've asked around before, the only one that offered a buy-out doesn't race midweek.  

As you say, my interest in this thread is very much the future.... as for the 'now' and how to ensure that there even is a future for it.... that's someone else's problem.

  


Edited by turnturtle - 28 Feb 17 at 1:42pm
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

.....
I'd love to know which clubs around here don't have duties.... that'd be a start.  I've asked around before, the only one that offered a buy-out doesn't race midweek.  

As you say, my interest in this thread is very much the future.... as for the 'now' and how to ensure that there even is a future for it.... that's someone else's problem.

  
Perhaps that's illustrating the difference between where I am, ironically somewhat closer to the area covered in detail by the report, and where you are?
I've not entirely figured out the detail of how those two clubs don't need to have duties.
Partly I suspect it that one of them is actually as much a yacht club as a dinghy club, so has a big pool of people it can fidn volunteers from. Both clubs have a number of kids sailing whose parents muck in. Both clubs are 'town sailing clubs', so probalby retain loyal members who used to have boats etc. Both clubs have affordable (going on towards 'bargain') membership and charge significantly to store and race a dinghy. From appearances both clubs are in good health.
I  have since joined another club which is more on the typical club model with duties, bar volunteers, work parties and all that.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 2:41pm
I guess the one thing that surprises me is that when I look through the results, well over half the participants are doing well under half the races per series.  I don't think we have a qualification minimum level anymore, even signing on once is enough to 'qualify', but it does seem to me that there are definitely some folk who are happy with the number of races they get per duty - even if it's minimal.  

 I know some people even enjoy running the racing, doing rescue cover etc, I guess it gets them out the house and is better than murdering fish to avoid the wife and brat.....

I envy them I guess.... it must make life simpler to just accept it.  LOL

Your point about the kids participating is very true.... nothing so formal as duty roster, but I've lost count of the saturday mornings I've spent shovelling poo at the yard, organising big group get-togethers and PTA stuff like tombola and the annual spit roast...  LOL


Edited by turnturtle - 28 Feb 17 at 2:45pm
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 3:32pm
At our club we have pretty high levels of participation in Junior Training on Tuesday evenings and Saturday mornings, with perhaps 100 junior members.  The club has been grant aided in getting a range of suitable junior boats.  

Some of the Juniors notably children of active adult members form part of our racing fleets and are good at a national level ... then they go to University,

On the whole, we don't get 100 Juniors transfering into the Club's racing programme.  But they are the base of the pyramid, hopefully they won't forget their skills and will re-engage with the sport as they approach middle age ... even if this is a Flotilla holiday in Greece.

So I regard what the club does with its Sport England support as a bit of a success,

In the old days there was a clear division between a Sailing Club and a Training Centre, which were often at opposite ends of the lake.  As we all get more demanding of facilities that must resemble those of a Sports Centre; we need to find ways to combine Sailing Clubs and Training Centres, without losing the comraderie of a club, but taking advantage of two income streams, to provide the facilities that are expected in 2017. 
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 4:06pm
On a smaller scale, we are very much in the same position, Davidyacht. Not sure I recognise much of the Doom and gloom from other posts. Our junior group bases it's days round the RYA stages, but we give out certificates at the end of the season, so someone can take as long as they want in a group, even staying in it after being signed off if that is where their friends are.
Adult courses are another matter entirely, but we have had a lot of club input from quiet a few of our recent course members, helping with Sailability, juniors, crewing etc.
Doesn't mean this year will do the same, but we work hard at keeping the training as something that suits the members. We just sometimes have to guess what that is, as it often isn't what they say!

Edited by Rupert - 28 Feb 17 at 4:07pm
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Posts: 3419 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 17 at 8:11pm
out of all courses and try outs last year (approx' 80 people) we gained 2 members 1 of these already disappeared, other 1 not missed a session, none of new members for last 2 years have learned to do duties, tbf they have all turned up on their duty days, but have not advanced enough to do on their own and not one could set a course
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