Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 06 Mar 14 at 4:06pm |
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We are now arriving at the heart of the debate.
One point - rule 14 does not qualify damage - any damage will do to prevent RoW boat from being exonerated. If the reply to the question "was there any damage? is "Yes -but only a scratch" then according to the rule the RoW cannot be exonerated. My latest thinking on this is as follows:
To resume: a prudent owner can accept that in the course of racing his boat will suffer minor damage and will depreciate in value. However, no prudent owner can accept that breaking boats to the extent that considerable time and expense is required to make good damage is a normal part of racing. The Racing Rules of Sailing have been written, and should be applied, so that sailing remains a non-contact sport, and that the penalty for causing serious damage, as defined above, is to retire from the race. |
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Gordon
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Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
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By buffing out, I'm referring to those situation where you've literally swapped paint. Bit of elbow grease, squirt of deck cleaner, apply sponge et voila, all shiny again. In those situations, where the existance or not of damage is relevant to 14, then it's OK to find after the race that it really is a case of a quick clean (so while14 might apply, the RoW boat will be exonerated). To me, a repair should take you pretty close to status quo ante. A hole means laminating. I'm no great shakes with the resin pot, but I would think that most people view it as non-trivial when they start cutting cloth and mixing resin and hardner. |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Umm, I think you're stretching it there. A proper repair on something like that, especially if it involves gel coat, I think ought to be in the serious category. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Really? If someone put their bowsprit straight through me, I would certainly expect them to retire. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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If you can see what to buff out, how can you say it's not damage? I'm happy that it might be trivial damage, that a protest committee should not take notice of (particularly for rule 14( b )), but I don't think you can make it disappear.
I think it would be possible for, say a nice, bowsprit-shaped hole, high in the topsides of a fibreglass boat, with no structural damage, in an accessible position, that would take no more than an hour or two to bog up would be short of serious
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Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
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Entirely agree. Holes are serious.
Buff out - not damage ("And rubbin, son, is racin'(*)'") Gelcoat chip - damage Hole - serious damage. *(Yes, I know that it isn't.)
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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The problem is that different protest committees (and even international juries) seem to have widely different opinion on what constitutes serious damage. Some seem to think that damage costing several grand to repair is not serious if the boat can finish the race! Others, my self included, hold that a hole in a boat is serious damage Coming back to port with a hole in your boat should not be a normal part of sailing.
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Gordon
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Try the marked changes.
So we have produced an elegant little paragraph.
If this is the problem you are trying to solve, how does the 'definition' help? Couldn't you just as well explain to the competitor that the protest committee considered the factors in Judges Manual M2 and M3 and concluded that the damage was serious? Edited by Brass - 05 Mar 14 at 9:18pm |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Combining different texts I have come up with the following proposed guidelines.
I would appreciate your opinion: Serious damage is any damage that seriously impairs the performance of a boat or her crew, or seriously diminishes the market value of the boat. Serious damage has occurred when the normal operation of the boat is compromised, and its structural integrity may be impaired. A prudent owner will repair serious damage promptly even though the boat may be able to continue to race, with or without temporary repairs. Repairs will generally require more than 3 hours work. |
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Gordon
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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A rule 44 penalty ceases to be the applicable penalty for a boat when it is known that the boat caused serious damage - which may well be after boats have finished, or even, for instance in the case of big boats, much later.
In this context there is little debate regarding injury - partly because most sailors will retire if they cause injury, partly because causing any injury excludes the possibility of taking a penalty at the time of an incident. It does not have to be serious injury. This question arose because of a competitor feeling aggrieved because we had DSQ'd him for aking a hole in another boat (28ft keelboats). He felt that juries at other class events would not have considered the damage serious and felt that we were "harsh" in not accepting that his turns were not a sufficient penalty. |
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Gordon
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