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harrier dinghy

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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: harrier dinghy
    Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 10:23am
Pfft just let your outhaul out more then?
On boards there is a gain to having your boom on a shorter extension to keep it stiffer.
PLus like you say, there is a bit of aero elasticity working for you in this case a la square top
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 10:46am
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Pfft just let your outhaul out more then?

My thought exactly!
On boards there is a gain to having your boom on a shorter extension to keep it stiffer.
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

PLus like you say, there is a bit of aero elasticity working for you in this case a la square top

This is the bit that interests me. Obviously it is most useful having the elasticity at the top, but I wonder if a cunning combo of clew shape and batten tension might not lead to even better gust response?
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 10:54am
From a practical 'experience' point of view of sailing a mix of fully battened v soft sails, Dan's comments on 'straight line' speed is spot on. In many ways the Weston Hornet fleet  was a good example to focus on, as there was a good and competitive fleet  there so it was easy to make a reasonable comparison. In the light, flukey conditions, both the boats with fully battened mains could be seen to be struggling - typical northerly/easterly conditions at Weston. However, medium conditions, blowing up southampton water and the conditions were reversed. In both these circumstances the differences were scarcely more than marginal, but even allowing for the skill variation between boats, the advantages/disadvantages could still be seen.
Maybe it is not the sailors who (as Jim infers) who can't 'get' fully battened, but maybe it is more a function of the UK design mentality - making boats for the conditions they will be sailed in!
Dougal H
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 12:48pm
Fully battened sails avoid the annoyance of top battens that won't tack.
I think you have to look at the whole rig though, battens, sailcloth and mast, plus of course most rig design is constrained by class rules.
And even new classes are heavily influenced by what's current in other classes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 4:12pm
Having grown up on super stiff camber induced windsurf rigs (one of my favourites being a 5.2m Ken Black race sail that was stiffer than most due to it's small size), I actually much prefer soft sails on hiking dinghies. One of the things I struggled with when transfering was the significant loss of feel when simply holding the mainsheet versus holding the whole rig. This is particularly so inland with shifty, gusty conditions.

However as soon you are fully powered up you start to get some of the feel back in fully battened rigs and I'm very comfortable with them again. It is simply the case that those conditions are far less prevalent than being underpowered to some degree, so on balance soft wins inland for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 5:32pm

Yup - it is all about appropriateness at the end of the day.   No reason not to be fully battened unless there was also a down side .. … which very often is exactly the case.

You can chuck all the theory at it you like  ... but when 'semi-soft' really is faster round the course it does not matter at all what anyone says .. or thinks or whatever.  Does not matter one jot whether you or I think class 'x' is 'slow' or 'fast' either - if the rig type on it proves faster that really must be the one to go for surely.  Theory does not necesarily win races or produce a 'sweet' product.   

Mike L  (Yes ..  2 days racing in breeze really is good !)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 9:22pm
I sailed the original blaze rig and it was bloody awful.  The newer soft sail version was/is much better. However, I am not sure you are comparing apples with apples.  The newer soft sail was obviously a development and evolved over time whilst the old fully batten rig was as topper cobbled, and I guess had no development at all?

Edited by Ruscoe - 20 Oct 13 at 9:23pm

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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 13 at 10:48pm
... but that does not explain why the semi-soft route was chosen .. the development could equally have been to produce a 'better' fully battened rig.  Or why a dozen other classes starting with the RS 800 went semi-soft from day one in the last decade.  All of them could so easily have been fully battened as well.  Did they go against the theory they 'ought' to have followed as well ?

Apples really are the common currency here ...

Mike L.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 13 at 5:59am
Agree with Russ, it wasnt apples with apples - the early blaze rigs were bad and the semi battening was only a part of the difference. Common currency is making a boat seem less threatening and more docile for most punters.
As a "fast" boat that will never have apparent aft of beam the 800 has less justification for doing it performance wise.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Clive Evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 13 at 6:37am
Having sailed all variants of the blaze since it was designed but never been "in the class" (worked at datchet where topper had a demo boat) I'd agree the new one is a dream compared with the earlier ones especially the biggest fully battened rig which was awkward to gybe and even sail downhill.

Saw earlier the point that CSM isn't a boatbuilding material, whilst its a truly awful layup and more suited to children's slides in a pub beer garden wouldn't it still be the most common layup if you consider all the solos, lasers etc built with it in the past? I think from memory the 5000 had lots of CSM areas (hence why it was so heavy I guess!!!!)
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