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Claims against Sailing Clubs

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Contender443 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Mar 13 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by clubmember

 

 

The competitor had chartered the boat specifically for the event.

The competitor asked the owner of the boat to claim on his own insurance but this was refused.

The claim has not come from his insurers but by a private ‘legal assistance’ firm.

The RYA has been very non-committal and has been reluctant to provide anything of substance other than ‘let us know what happens’.


So why did the owner not want to claim on his insurance? Now just speculation here it was either they had not told their insurer or they wanted to maintain a clear claims history. If it is the former then the boat was probably not insured and should not have been racing anyway.The entry will have signed a declaration on the entry form confirming they have 3rd party insurance in place. If it was the latter then the charterer should have insisted they claim and refuse to pay anything except the excess.

Now nobody likes any "legal assistance" firms and if we want to keep our premiums down they should be kept away from sailing. That is something that is very distasteful about this situation.
Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Contender443

The entry will have signed a declaration on the entry form confirming they have 3rd party insurance in place. If it was the latter then the charterer should have insisted they claim and refuse to pay anything except the excess.


Third party insurance would only cover him against damage to other boats not the one he was sailing. That's why it's called third party.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 8:39am
Yep, chartering and insurance is a minefield. For most of us ordinary folks the best advice is *never* charter your boat out. Best left to the big boat people where all the legal options and so on are well understood and there's enough money in the deal to get it all sorted out properly without the income all disappearing in the admin and overheads.
Lending my boat to friends for trips round the bay or races, with me watching, having rigged the boat and with weather and everything else carefully controlled: sure, I do it fairly frequently. Apart from anything else in those circumstances it would take a lot of effort to do something I can't fix. Charter? No way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 9:59am
Chartering my boat out meant an aussie got the chance to sail in the Weymouth worlds.  Otherwise he would not have been able to aford it.  The boat was well insured plus had a 'minder' at the event.  I made some money out of it and someone else got to sail.

Likewise me chartering a boat meant I could sail at the worlds in Canada.  This was all done with the help of the class association and properly managed.  Chartering happens a lot in classes where events are often held on the other side of the world.  Done properly it's fine and helps keep numbers up.  It looks like this was not done well at all, and the club is being made the scapegoat.
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 10:24am
The chartering thing is interesting but not what the original post was about, which was whether you can sue a race officer or his club for something they do in the course of organising a race. This is hugely important. If an amateur volunteer race officer doing the job for the first time underestimates the incompetence of those on the water, is he or she liable in law? Suppose the Hamble River Sailing Club organises a race and a competitor is subsequently run down by a hovercraft, can they be sued? If the answer is yes, I for one will never do RO again. I think the RYA might pick this one up f asked.

George Morris
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tgruitt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 10:30am
To be honest I think it's up to the sailor to research the waters they are sailing in before attending an event. I would think it's friendly that locals might point things out but I don't think they have any obligations, anything specific regarding safety should be noted in the SIs which we all read thoroughly anyway, don't we?
Needs to sail more...
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 10:33am
George's points are the critical issue here ...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 10:46am
I've not seen anything in the RRS which obliges the RO to warn people of hazards. The law firmly puts the responsibility for the safety of the vessel on the boat's master (usually the helm in a racing dinghy).
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 10:50am
If the amateur race officer sets his start line smack across the hovercraft route or the deepwater channel, clear against all the guidance in his club race management instructions, then I reckon he or his club is vulnerable to being sued. Same as every time you venture out on the road in your car you're vulnerable to being sued if you do something negligent and stupid.

However if everything is set according to the club manual, and in clear breach of all the SIs, course notes and everything else, some idiot blunders across the hovercraft route and gets run down, then I'm quite sure the RO is 100% in the clear.

But I'm not a lawyer, I could be talking complete BS.
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 13 at 10:53am
Originally posted by 2547

George's points are the critical issue here ...

I agree but it should never get to the stage where the RO is sued. We have insurance on our own boats that we must use in the first case. It could be that in this case the charter boat was not insured so is clutching at straws and is suing the club/RO.
 
It would be interesting to see who is being sued. Is it the club or an individual RO? All clubs carry insurance  - do these policies cover this type of incident and legal costs?
Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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