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Cirrus Icon Development

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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cirrus Icon Development
    Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 10:40am

SMODs usually have single sourcing of key equipment – hull,spars,foils,sails.  This keeps these items consistent and arguably fairer and more economic.  It certainly stops the pressure to have multiple cuts of sails and for periodic tweaking of hull shape ’within the rules’.   The rules simply reflect this model of equipment supply.  Some SMODs will have very tightly defined rules beyond these key items; almost defining what ropes can be used for racing.  Others, and ICON will be one of them, will allow a certain amount of  personalization in areas such as the mainsheet set-up.  (We recognize that some may not get on with ‘off boom sheeting’ for example !) .  

Defined hull weight ? – Yes – with correctors if needed – bonded in during the final build …. To avoid that inevitable temptation ….

Manufacturers veto – Yes as it is a SMOD but for ICON if you want to replace minor items such as blocks with your favorite no problem provided they approximate to the ‘standard’ one.   In this respect it will be little different to a host of other mainstream SMODs.  Well run SMODs classes are managed by the manufacturer with a lot of CA input – why would they ignore useful input.  Both CA and manufacturer should share similar goals, promotion and expansion of the class.   

It should also be remembered that many traditional CA run classes still have to get approval for changes by the original designer who may well be external to the class.  In this respect there is little difference between SMODs and these CA managed classes as the ‘designer’ is often the SMOD  manufacturer involved.   

Where does development stop ?  - When you launch it if you are sensible.  Periodic major reviews aside the SMOD model is intended for those who want a defined standard package for racing.  If you lean towards a lot of incremental personalization then the development classes are the ones to go after. 

The thing about the UK is that there is a lot of choice – development, traditional ‘one-design’ and SMOD classes.  If you don’t like one approach then you can switch.    

If we get it right ICON will offer a real alternative with a high specification at a very affordable price ... soon now.

Mike L.  (Cirrus)

 

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The Moo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 11:47am
Mike. You mention in your earlier post some flexibility regarding mainsheet arrangement. Would that go as far as allowing transom main? I am guessing this would appeal to potential National 12 and Enterprise converts, particularly the pond sailors who are tacking every 30 seconds or so........
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 5:41pm
Mainsheet .....

ICON standard issue will be 'rear plus off the boom at front of cockpit' but it is not an issue we are going to get bogged down over.  If you want a 'traditional' rear sheeting system it will be allowed and conversion between these systems relative pence  to change.  It is a SMOD but  this sort of thing will be 'free range' as it costs very little to switch.  

Similarly - you can have a thwart if you want one ... it will be a standard option.  However it is not critical for the structure and so those who do not want one can simply not order/fit one.

Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Mike- any indication as of yet for the minimum weight for a benign pond?  

(my daughter will be 3 early next year and I've been looking at your developments with a view to the medium/longer term... )
 
James,
 
Neither the new hull nor latest rig have been tried yet, so its a bit early to say, but I imagine that at the extreme light end the minimum weight would be about the same as the min weight for a 200 - what's that, 17 stone perhaps?  You wouldn't be fully competitive in any kind of breeze obviously, but the lack of kite makes it more child friendly and it would be fine on a gentle summer's day.
 
At the other extreme, with the bigger hull, it can also carry more weight than a 200.  I suspect the ideal crew weight will be somewhere between a 200 and 400 sized team.


Edited by Peaky - 29 Oct 10 at 8:46pm
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 10 at 11:15am
The 'hybrid' NS14 test-bed had less volume and was both narrower and shorter than ICON however it coped well with a wide variety of crew weights in informal racing.  The key is the very adaptable carbon rig - if you set it up correctly to your weight and use the standard controls.  We injected more volume to extend the crew weight capability but the rig is very similar to the hybrids rig - however mast wil be a bit more raked, the main slightly smaller and the jib a bit bigger.  Most of the extra hull length went in front of the mast to change this sail balance - we are not restricted by a development class limits now.  This keeps the centre of effort low and allows a larger offwind jib projection on the 'semi-automatic' jib stick on the opposite side to the main.  It is not like the N12's as it would have to be very long indeed and our version stows along either side the boom.  However it is very simple, permanenetly attached and imposisble to lose over the side.

I think Peaky is about right on 'ideal' weight but the very light stayed carbon rig will extend the 'ideal' range further than could ever be the case with an alloy one.

Funnily enough Moo when my kids were a bit bigger than your daughter we got a 200 but it was soon obvious that my son could not play the spinnaker in breeze and we were simply not prepared to wait a couple of years so quickly switched to a Tasar about 10 or 12 years ago -  the years are very valuable when they are young.  Anyway - fantastic boat, opened my eyes as to what was possible with such a 'simple' set-up and partly now why we are developing ICON.  We could sail it in breeze very quickly and it was 'right' for us at that time - ICON is intended to have a wide weight range and I believe we have done all the right things to make this possible.

Mike L. (Cirrus Raceboats)    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 10 at 10:24pm

I took the prototype Icon out singlehanded today at Burghfield.  It was every bit as good as I hoped and remembered.  It really is absolutely fantastic!   

It had a North jib that doesn't sit as close to the deck as it perhaps should, and a Hyde main that is a little long in the leach (leading to a droopy boom), but even like this, it is a rocket ship.
I honestly don't think I've ever sailed a boat that accelerates so smoothly, both in gusts and out of tacks (if that's legal?!).  The production boat, with fully sorted rig and controls should suprise a great many people with just how fast and controllable it is.

A couple of little details that I liked:

An ingeniously jib pole set up, which I can't begin to describe but is probably old hat in Merlins, and saved me losing the jib pole over the side while goosewinging!  It is actually very simple, but still to complex for me to describe!

The jib halyard system. The jib zips up the forestay with the halyard hidden inside the luff zip and cleated to a hidden cleat inside the zip at the tack.  The tail is then stowed in a little pocket in the jib.  Apparently similar to 49ers etc (except they use hanks not a zip, I think) and very neat.

All in all I had a great time and was delighted to find the Icon really was as good as I remembered.  I can't wait for the real thing, which promises to be just brilliant!

For those interested, I have put more detail in the ICON Yahoo Group -  here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 9:57am
Latest progress on the hull plug.  Note how it is double chined at the back, single chined in the middle and unchined at the front:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 9:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 10:13am
What was the thinking with the chines, I wonder?
 
I've always thought that the Scorpion's low chine taken right forward - shedding water, generating lift at transition - was a reason why such a narrow/heavy/underpowerd boat was so quick for its length.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

What was the thinking with the chines, I wonder?
 
I've always thought that the Scorpion's low chine taken right forward - shedding water, generating lift at transition - was a reason why such a narrow/heavy/underpowerd boat was so quick for its length.


One of the reasons for the low chines on the Scorpion is that the boat was originally designed with home-builds in mind. The bottom skin panels are quite thick plywood, so the low chines mean that the ply doesn't have to get too much bending/twisting/double curvature.
Lots of volume low down, more vertical topsides is good too Smile


Edited by I luv Wight - 05 Nov 10 at 10:36am

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