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iGRF View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Feb 14 at 1:52am
Originally posted by Rupert

I've been told on this very forum that the mast being forwards doesn't cause nosedives.However, as a Lightning sailor, I didn't believe them.


Took me a while to work out why that is, when the immediate logic would appear otherwise, obviously all other things like rocker, wavelength etc taken into consideration, to me it appears to be about the 'moment' of the rig leveraging the nose down, the further forward the more boat behind to counter the moment, boats with a knaff rocker are still going to nose dive, given in a lot of instances it's waves from behind tilting them nose down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 14 at 7:26am
Originally posted by Rupert

mast being forwards doesn't cause nosedives.However, as a Lightning sailor, I didn't believe them.

But have you sailed two lightnings, one with the mast a foot further aft than the other?
I don't have any strong opinionsee on the subject, but I think if I drew triangles then initially as the boat nosedived a mast forward of centre of rotation would mean centre of effort going lower, aft of centre of rotation means c of effort higher. Not convinced diff would be significant though. I tend to assume weight distribution wouldn't be a big factor since of your boat is heavier in the bow don't you just sit a tad further aft?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dark Harris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 14 at 10:08am
When the waves are lifting you from behind it's called surfing...Don't be scared it's quite normal and can be quite fun
When they say you are too old you probably are, but do it anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 14 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Dark Harris

When the waves are lifting you from behind it's called surfing...Don't be scared it's quite normal and can be quite fun

That's quite true Mr Harris, but when it happens you'd better be sure to head up and sail along the wave until you get some speed, rather than straight down it if you don't want to dive into the back of the next wave...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 14 at 10:17am
I must admit I always thought that the important thing was getting the centre of effort of the sail in balance with the lateral resistance of the hull (waterline/centreboard etc).  If the mast is relatively too far forward in relation to this then the boat will want to bear away.  I used to have a Solution which also had the mast far forward but (inland) nose diving was never an issue until the wind was ballistic and, even then, only dead down wind.  So, as long as the centre of effort of the sail and lateral resistance are in balance, my uneducated and uninformed opinion is that mast position makes no difference to whether or not a boat will nose dive.



Edited by Dougal - 17 Feb 14 at 10:20am
What could possibly go wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 14 at 10:23am
I don't think anyone would say Silk's mast is too far forward:


What could possibly go wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 14 at 11:00am
We all know that hundreds of litres of water in the bow were to blame for that...  Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 14 at 11:13am
I didn't know that, but it certainly makes sense. Point is, it is nothing to do with the position of the mast.
What could possibly go wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 14 at 11:20am
Afterwards there were a few more hundred litres in there too! 

I have always thought moving the mast forward would make a boat more nose happy. If you take a wooden base and put a mast on it you can do a simple experiment where you move the mast to the front and try to push it over forwards and it will be easy if it is at the front, harder in the middle and even harder at the back. This only happens when the hull is stopped. The answer is not to move the mast but to just keep the bow up in the first place, otherwise you will do what Silk did! 

The fact is that in these nosedive situations the forces are so big that buoyancy isnt going to save you, preventing deceleration will... 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 14 at 11:24am
It's good to know that the new RS is a little nosey... Before any of us have actually sailed it!!!
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