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    Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 10:44am
With regards to trans participating in sport this is the case that seems to be a hot topic at present.


I don't know the rights and wrongs of this or the rules or laws ... but it does not seem a fair competition has taken place  ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 11:06am
Originally posted by craiggo


By the way, well sailed on the weekend. Poor boat handling was punished massively. I definitely need more time in the boat if I'm to get back up nearer the front.


Thanks Craiggo. It was certainly a tough weekend’s sailing and the slightest move was punished by losing places. Hopefully more of the same next year!

Perhaps I am coming across as over-sensitive but getting back into sailing after transition has been an actual life saver for me as I thought I’d never be able to return to the sport for fear of ridicule and rejection. But the sport of sailing and the general sailing crowd has proved me wrong and I love it all the more for that. I guess I’m just trying to make sure others who may be facing the same know that sailing will welcome them back and they can carry on doing the best sport in the world
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 11:21am
Part of the issue is that WS, IOC and the national qualifying events for the Olympics and Worlds are the only area where sectarianism between genders occurs in our sport.  Everywhere else can someone turn up regardless of their race, creed or identity and participate ... all you have to do is have a boat and turn up.

I accept that many clubs might be steeped with people with prejudices, but generally a lot of grants have pushed clubs into having much more open criteria. 

To pick a buzzword of the moment, we are the Dinghy Racing Tribe, and frankly my discrimination is not between the members of the tribe, in by book you either sail or don’t sail.

So perhaps the problem with the WS allocation of the 10 classes or should I say events, is that they are divided by gender, whereas at grass roots level there is no such division.

And before anyone says; but the new offshore keelboat is a “mixed” class, my objection is not about the “mixed”, it is that it is unlikely to provide the athletic challenge that I expect to see of an Olympian, something that the Finn had in spades.

To my eye, it would have been better to have 10 mixed classes, carefully chosen to fit different weight bands, if one is mixed but predominant men and another mixed but predominantly women, for instance something that might happen with the Europe, then that would be very healthy, and would send out a very positive message as being one of the few sports where men and women can compete together.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 11:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 11:43am
Originally posted by craiggo

Karen, to be honest I don't see too much mockery in this thread, other than that aimed at iGRF which is surely totally acceptable 🤣.

What I do see are genuine questions and uncertainties regarding how at a top level of competition we can seperate male and female events in a way that allows fair competition. The cases of elite female athelites with excessive testosterone levels are well documented and have for years been the source of much anger from spectators and competitors alike as it has been viewed as cheating.
As more and more people either change gender or identify as a different gender how we manage this in elite level sport will surely become a key question. At the moment the lack of clarity will do nothing other than create division and uncertainty and this in turn will lead to views and humour that are not necessarily agreed by all.
At a more grass roots level it doesn't matter or at least not to most.




Difference being is Graeme is pretty happy to be mocked / sent up , and puts himself
Up to it. Whilst all of this is good natured, The acid test is whether another participant feels offended, and in this case, whilst absolutely no offence was intended, it looks like a line has been overstepped, so apologies from myself.
Whilst I don’t agree with blanket political correctness, it is an absolute catch all that ensures that nobody included the most sensitive can be offended. Trouble is that what is jovial friendly “banter” to some is not friendly to others, and it takes a lot of social intelligence to judge the line. This is easy enough amongst friends one knows in person, where Esp blokes will mercilessly rib their good friends for sport over anything they can think of, we perhaps need to be more mindful of how well we know people in an online environment and how comfortable everyone is given that, whilst an Internet forum is a place where people discuss a common interest, not everyone can know each other’s sensitivities.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 12:19pm
I'm short, I hate being short, been short all my life, nobody cares about my feelings when the dwarf jokes cut in, what is it with Trans folk or Gays for that matter, that they think they can be some special case and nobody should take the piss? And don't start with discrimination, I could give you chapter and verse about short people being discriminated against. Trans could be even described as a lifestyle choice, Short isn't. Nor is Ginger but that's another thread, then there are folk from up North and Jocks and Taffy... FFS

What happened to this country and everyone deciding to be offended at the drop of a hat rather than 'get' a joke?

Edited by iGRF - 07 Nov 18 at 12:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I'm short, I hate being short, been short all my life, nobody cares about my feelings when the dwarf jokes cut in, what is it with Trans folk or Gays for that matter, that they think they can be some special case and nobody should take the piss? And don't start with discrimination, I could give you chapter and verse about short people being discriminated against. Trans could be even described as a lifestyle choice, Short isn't. Nor is Ginger but that's another thread, then there are folk from up North and Jocks and Taffy... FFS

What happened to this country and everyone deciding to be offended at the drop of a hat rather than 'get' the joke?

There isn't a difference, "they're" just more organised.  If there's been more progress in some areas than others, why not try and make progress in the areas with less progress rather than undo the progress in the areas that have had it?

Seems a bit more progressive no?  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Part of the issue is that WS, IOC and the national qualifying events for the Olympics and Worlds are the only area where sectarianism between genders occurs in our sport.  Everywhere else can someone turn up regardless of their race, creed or identity and participate ... all you have to do is have a boat and turn up.

I accept that many clubs might be steeped with people with prejudices, but generally a lot of grants have pushed clubs into having much more open criteria. 

To pick a buzzword of the moment, we are the Dinghy Racing Tribe, and frankly my discrimination is not between the members of the tribe, in by book you either sail or don’t sail.

So perhaps the problem with the WS allocation of the 10 classes or should I say events, is that they are divided by gender, whereas at grass roots level there is no such division.

And before anyone says; but the new offshore keelboat is a “mixed” class, my objection is not about the “mixed”, it is that it is unlikely to provide the athletic challenge that I expect to see of an Olympian, something that the Finn had in spades.

To my eye, it would have been better to have 10 mixed classes, carefully chosen to fit different weight bands, if one is mixed but predominant men and another mixed but predominantly women, for instance something that might happen with the Europe, then that would be very healthy, and would send out a very positive message as being one of the few sports where men and women can compete together.

Hear hear.  I think the importance of weight is massively overlooked to be honest.  Sailing would be better off with a single choice of equipment with competitors divided into weight categories imo.

I don't know what the finns are complaining about, as a 72kg single handed sailor I've never even had the chance  Tongue  

The choices of rules/divisions in sport are essentially arbitrary.   In sailing we have a bunch of different categories and we fret about it all the time, but in the high jump they don't have a heavyweight male category do they?  Or the 1500m for people who weight more than 85kg...  Or shotput for 65kg people... or... 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by bustinben


Originally posted by iGRF

I'm short, I hate being short, been short all my life, nobody cares about my feelings when the dwarf jokes cut in, what is it with Trans folk or Gays for that matter, that they think they can be some special case and nobody should take the piss? And don't start with discrimination, I could give you chapter and verse about short people being discriminated against. Trans could be even described as a lifestyle choice, Short isn't. Nor is Ginger but that's another thread, then there are folk from up North and Jocks and Taffy... FFS

What happened to this country and everyone deciding to be offended at the drop of a hat rather than 'get' the joke?

There isn't a difference, "they're" just more organised.  If there's been more progress in some areas than others, why not try and make progress in the areas with less progress rather than undo the progress in the areas that have had it?
Seems a bit more progressive no?  Wink


Because it's ridiculous, everybody has some issue or other they're not comfortable about and humour has been the foil with which we've all dealt with it over the years. Nobody seems to remember the sticks and stones adage of the past, in this world of mollycoddling, life is like this, accept it and learn the witty comeback or just roll your eyes upwards. Life really is too short (pardon the pun) to get wound up, other than maybe the obvious crassness that also seems to pervade society and it's lack of knowledge of what actually is funny and what isn't, like the recent Grenfell bonfire incident, maybe they should teach humour in schools.

Edited by iGRF - 07 Nov 18 at 12:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I'm short, I hate being short, been short all my life, nobody cares about my feelings when the dwarf jokes cut in, what is it with Trans folk or Gays for that matter, that they think they can be some special case and nobody should take the piss? And don't start with discrimination, I could give you chapter and verse about short people being discriminated against. Trans could be even described as a lifestyle choice, Short isn't. Nor is Ginger but that's another thread, then there are folk from up North and Jocks and Taffy... FFS

What happened to this country and everyone deciding to be offended at the drop of a hat rather than 'get' a joke?


And the problem with the low level banter is that it is all too easy for it to become genuinely offensive. Which this is!
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