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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 11:40am
Originally posted by jeffers

Best to get it on it's side and stable ASAP.

The trouble is, I found, was that if the boat was on its side then in order to get the kite down I needed to be between boom and hull, in a perfect place to get entangled if the boat should go over again. I always felt horribly uncomfortable like that. With the boat inverted, by contrast, my whole body was off to one side of the rig, much less confined, and of course the boat is in a completely stable position.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 12:16pm
Ponder these scenarios: from the far side of the lake the safety crew sees an inverted boat but only counts one head.     

Also, someone you have encouraged to go under a boat does so and gets into difficulty.  Are you liable?

In the d one I have rigged a 'trip line' that means I can uncleat the kite halyard without having to go right forward to the cleat.  Great for my many disasters.  The boat is easy enough to right from inversion, despite the wings, but there is no air under it whatsoever I know this from personal experience.  Most of the modern sit on rather than sit in boats are the same, especially those with racks, wings etc.  open transom boats likewise, and one of the worst seems to be the rs200.  It's a great boat, but turtles quickly with no pocket underneath.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by winging it

and one of the worst seems to be the rs200.  It's a great boat, but turtles quickly with no pocket underneath.


that's a revelation.... I never checked out the air pocket when I had one (although I only capsized it twice iirc!)  It's certainly a boat I would have otherwise assumed had one if I hadn't just read that.   Confused Confused Confused
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 12:27pm
My first ever capsize when I was 7 was in a mirror. Ended up underneath it somehow. Caused my dad a few moments. He got me or by putting his hand on my head and sticking me under the gunwale and back up. Trouble was then that I had the jib sheet tight on my throat keeping me against the gunwale. Didn't put me off though but then the mirror had plenty of space inside when it's upside down. I wouldn't want to do it again though.
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Posts: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 12:53pm
I'm with Winging It here.   Going under a turtled , modern, double hull boat is dangerous.   Best to get it on it's side to sort out the knitting.  Also, make sure the board is tied off to prevent it falling out.

I'm very much in favour of boats turtling asap as a safety feature.   Especially, single handers.    Even if this  slightly increases the small risk of getting caught under a turtled hull.  




Edited by boatshed - 21 Nov 14 at 12:54pm
Steve
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 1:52pm
So is there an air pocket on the RS Aero?

(I'd have thought there'd be millions of tiny little ones given its confectionery namesake....)
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I can remember ducking under a Firefly when I was a kid to get the board out. It was fine, but certainly not something I'd encourage small children to do.

Must check what a Feva is like underwater - can't believe there is a nice cosy place like the Firefly or Scorp.

I have.  There is.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by winging it


The cockpit of an inverted boat is full of rope, wire, blocks etc all floating about and dangling down just waiting to wrap round your head, neck, arm, leg, whatever, and keep you there.  People don't drown because their boats invert,  they drown because they have become trapped underneath them and panicked.  At this point their BAs work against them and they are pretty much a lost cause unless someone can get the boat upright.



And there in lies the fallacy in this argument.  All the ropes (less spi halliard) are attached to the hull, which is above you and can go no lower until righted.  So if/once you are under there is minimal risk.

 
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by winging it

 People don't drown because their boats invert,  they drown because they have become trapped underneath them and panicked.  At this point their BAs work against them and they are pretty much a lost cause unless someone can get the boat upright.



We don't really know because there haven't been many opportunities to debrief the ones who drown.  But panic may be a factor.....  

So to avoid panic become familiar with the place of refuge (air pocket).


Edited by sargesail - 21 Nov 14 at 3:07pm
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 14 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by winging it


The cockpit of an inverted boat is full of rope, wire, blocks etc all floating about and dangling down just waiting to wrap round your head, neck, arm, leg, whatever, and keep you there.  People don't drown because their boats invert,  they drown because they have become trapped underneath them and panicked.  At this point their BAs work against them and they are pretty much a lost cause unless someone can get the boat upright.



And there in lies the fallacy in this argument.  All the ropes (less spi halliard) are attached to the hull, which is above you and can go no lower until righted.  So if/once you are under there is minimal risk.

 

No, all these lines are not obediently clinging to the hull.  They are as subject to gravity as the rat of us, and when the hull is upside down they will hang down into the water.  I have been there myself and in no way would class it as safe.

There's no way in the world a sensible instructor would encourage anyone to deliberately go under a hull.  Too many people have got into serious trouble by doing so.  Sorry Matt, but I firmly disagree on this one.
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