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Rule 42

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timeintheboat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rule 42
    Posted: 27 Apr 10 at 6:12pm
I recall a Supernova (fully battened main) a year or so a go where the was a trial with on the water judges who I  think we getting in practice for something bigger and a few got pinged for trying to get the battens popped - not happy bunnies. 
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Hector View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 12:09am

Some classes have a long top batten and that can be a reet swine to get popped. The same classes suffer from a few who apparently always need 2 or 3 or more attempts - with vigourous rolling and wafting of sail / pumping of the boom. Significant forward propulsion results - clear breach of R42 but hard to prove unless most of fleet gangs up on them - but then everyones doing it - just to different degrees.

Problem area - beer is clearly best solution.

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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 7:06am
possibly more of a single hander problem? After all, in a double hander you have other viable options- really effective for a crew to grab the falls of the cunningham (which should be unloaded in most classes in these conditions) and give it a good sharp tug.

Still will provide a bit of a speed boost, even if you keep the rig still- after all, you're going from a sailed that stalled to one that's working you...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Captain Morgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 1:13pm

Originally posted by timeintheboat

I recall a Supernova (fully battened main) a year or so a go where the was a trial with on the water judges who I  think we getting in practice for something bigger and a few got pinged for trying to get the battens popped - not happy bunnies. 

That wasn't me, and I wasn't there, however at that time I (in my Supernova) was nearly taken to protest at least twice for trying to pop the battens across. The CA forum had a bit of discussion about what constitutes pumping/popping back then. I too was lead to understand that one pump (soley to get the battens across) was acceptable.

I could be very wrong here, but I vaguely remember the Supernova CA saying that they would allow up to 2 pumps for this purpose.

I was particularly annoyed at the time when I was critisised for "pumping" as it was by a catamaran sailor... Cats seem to spend every tack pumping their mains to get their battens to pop (though the speed gain in such cases would be negligable anyway).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 2:18pm

I used to have this problem with the Blaze when it was very light. In the end it all comes down to technique. I found a little bit of kicker and a good positive roll tack usually did the job. Someone did shout at me once and I told them to look up...they soon shut up (esp when they were doing the same in their boat which didnt have a top batten issue).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 10:00pm

You are right Paul, it is all down to technique.  But if I have bad technique (And I obviously do), should I be penalised twice (Once for the bad tack/gybe and twice for the supposed pumping!)

Maybe I should be asking the RYA for clarification, so that it appears in the appeals folder, and we then have a definitive answer.

It does seem that rule 42 is rather woolly.  I always had an issue that you could pump a sail to initiate planing, so if you are crap at pumping and failed to initialise the plane, you could be protested!!!!

I obviously now found another flaw in that rule......

Do the RYA Rules Dept watch this forum? What is thier comment??.

Jon

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 10:06pm
1. if you try to initiate planing but fail you have not broken rule 42

2. Rest assured, any problme we cannot solve on htis forum will end up being discussed with the "appropriate authority" - who may be a member of the Racing Rules Committee.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon711 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 10 at 10:50pm

Gordon, Have PM'ed you

Jon

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 10 at 11:34am
Some time ago I gave this interpretation of rule 42.

"he ISAF interpretations of rule 42 define a flick as the effect caused by body movement or pulling in or releasing a sail that is so abrupt that the normal shape of the sail is changed and almost immediately returned to the original shape.

When you agitate a sail to tack the top batten the sail is not returned to the original shape. Doing this once would not break rule 42.2(a). However if the action propels the boat with the effect of one stroke of a paddle you would be breaking rule 42.1"

I requested confirmation from a recognised rule 42 guru - my interpretation has been confirmed. It was also stated that there is a wish to write into the rules or interpretations a specific exception to rule 42 relating to popping battens and battens stuck on forestay.

In the meantime, if there is a specific and recurring issue in a class the reccomended procedure would be to write a question to the Jury/protest committee. They should then post on the official notice board an interpretation that thye should apply at the event. It sound somewhat bureaucratic, but may avoid problems.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 10 at 3:26pm
I think the jury have wrote something into the 49er class rules to allow
you to pump again after a manoeuvre if the battens have not fully
popped. No one ever cared about you doing it but the jury did not like it
when they started judging medal races and everyone was popping the
battens if they had not gone!

Also most of rule 42 is down to doing something repeatedly, I am sure
that if you rolled and pumped the boat flat 3 or 4 times in a row and they
still did not pop you would be in trouble.

Most of the problem is that some juries do just not understand how to
sail the boats.

They even tried getting rid of rule 42 in over 7 knots in the 49er like the
finn, 470 etc. Would like to seem someone pump a 49er in over 7 knots
and make it go faster...
49er GBR5

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