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radixon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2407 		Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Allen
    Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 12:59pm

Yep very true about rooster. I bought an Aquafleece cos they are nice and toasty, had a spray top before that but it was drafty an cold. Then OH bought a top, and wears hers so its now in her kit bag.

The Rooster kit is great, and now the have the Coastal stuff (which is affordable and excellent) they are branching over to the keelboat/yachting scene.

Well done Steve and I am sure the Allen Brothers can do the same with their blocks. It is a case of starting them young.
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 1:09pm

Originally posted by laser4000

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Nope, sorry to be so pedantic but all dealing with kids does is innoculate
them against your product.


Bollox

Take Rooster - ok so good products but not that widely known a few years ago. Got a few of the oppy national squad to wear there kit and within 2 years ALL the oppy kids were wearing rooster. Those that move on to 420s, Radials, 29ers take rooster with them into those classes.

Then the parentals buy rooseter in adults cos it works for the kids - I even bought an aquafleece solely on my nieces recommendation and it rocks.

OK so it's a lot harder to get teens excited about pulleys than about clothes, but as usual Grumpf is out of touch..

I think you're both right to some extent. When I was a kid I knew that my Topper wasn't taken seriously in the grown-up world and viewed most things Topper (the boats and the stuff screwed to them) to be fairly low quality and, frankly Mickey Mouse.

I think it's common now for kids to take the junior classes more seriously even if (or maybe because) they are stepping stones to adult classes with serious credibility. Sure there were contemporaries of mine who thought they were the mutt's because they had a blue or raspberry Topper and the kit to match but they were rarer... and ribbed mecilessly.

I think this is where the marketting has won out which is media (internet) driven, as there were far fewer routes to market stuff to kids in the eighties than now.

I think the key question is wether the Mirror is now seen as a credible class.



Edited by Matt Jackson
Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 1:45pm

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by G.R.F.



Old Farts in Musto Skiffs?

I'm sure we'll have Rick along in a moment to have a word about that.


not sure the key component supplier/sponsor harken would be too keen
graeme... I wasn't even allowed to change a halyard cleat for a spinlock
mate.

That was a class rules issue TT as you know ...

As regards our age profile it's come down a lot over the last couple of years and the youth section is getting very competitive; we did also have a 68 competing at our worlds so the class is open to all who wish to have a bash ...

I shall refrain from any further comments on this thread as I am presonally sponsored by Harken.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 2:12pm

Originally posted by turnturtle


In regards to the original topic, reckon that bit of Allen bling would be
fine on a musto, IIRC the Superspar mast is standard fitted with a ronstan
ball-bearing block rather than harken anyway....

It's a Selden mast; madrel wound profiled section not a SuperSpar round tube; I'm note sure they make profiles carbon masts.

Here is the section from the class rules:

Cleats, blocks and fittings supplied by any manufacturer may be

replaced in the same position as the standard fitting or as close as

structurally possible. Replacement cleats shall be substantially the

same size and design. Replacement blocks shall have the same

number of sheaves of a similar diameter. Replacement blocks have

no sheave restrictions but shall not alter the weight distribution of the

boat.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Well Holt always had the 'cheap and nasty crap' association for me so for
me to switch to Allen they'd need to shake off that association and quick.


I never though I would would say this but I agree with Grumpf. Holt/Allen in my experience have always been at a good price but the qaulity has been sadly lacking.

Whether or not I have just had bad experiences of their products (or just been unlucky with them) I would rather pay a little more and get something I know will do the job and not break!

All you need to do is look at the new Harken rear mainsheet blocks for the Laser, they look much better and deal with the wear issues on the current blocks (not sure who manufactures these).

When I get round to replacing the current Holt mainsheet block I have on my Laser (it came with the boat). It was pretty new according to the last owner and the switch had already siezed with the ratchet permanently on (not a huge problem but annoying enough).
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

I think the key question is wether the Mirror is�now
seen as a credible�class.



and there in we shall show our age... for me 'yes'. I would much rather sail
a new GRP mirror than a new plastic fantastic yoof offering from the
mainstream builders.

I would certainly consider one in the not too distant future to sail with and
eventually hand down to my daughter.


The Mirror is very much a credible class.

It knocks fad assy boats like the Feva into a cocked hat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 3:48pm

I personally changed my opinion on holt products the moment they brought out the Holt "dynamic" range.  That was a step towards competing with ronstan and harken on ball bearing blocks.  Having a hole rather than a becket was something I liked. 
I've had a look at what small blocks Karver offer (all of about 1 of them), and I'm already quite taken in.  If it weren't for TT, I don't think I would have had the privelage of hearing about them.  So to Holt.......Allen.....whoever, I'd say as I think we and they all already know, word of mouth really is the most trust worthy source of advertising. 

Doug H
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Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 08 at 5:05pm

Reference Mirrors

The Mirror Class have enjoyed great support from Allen, many thanks, and although we may not be the most glamorous class out there,  we are one of the most numeric.  There have been over 70,000 Mirrors built and although not all these still exist,  there are many tens of thousands of Mirrors still being actively sailed,  so hopefully we have given good exposure to the Allen name in an important market and delivering a beneficial marketing opportunity.

We have found the Allen fittings to offer good value and performance,  which suits Mirrors perfectly
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 08 at 10:55am
The only Holt product I have used in recent years out of choice was the jib cleat & swivel for the 49er.

Liz, are Allen looking at replacements for the wire mainsheet swivels ? I've never really found them to be stiff enough and shyed away from them when I had my 600. Unfortunately my 700 has one and I dont like the flex that takes place, so would consider replacing next year, but at the moment I would have to go back to Harken, sorry! The swivels look good but just dont seem man enough for the job.

Going back to what others have said, the blocks do tend to have a certain fashion cred when they are first launched (eg. Ronstan Orbit blocks), however it doesnt take long for people to realise that in practice its the functionality and reliability thats important. The Harken mainsheet swivels for instance look pretty agricultural but work brilliantly as do some of their ratchet blocks, so a balance has to be struck. It has to have a certain fashion appeal to initially attract buyers but for long term sales it needs to do the job.

I hope Allen can sort the problems and reputation that Holt had out, and provide us with sensibly priced alternatives to Ronstan & Harken.
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Dan MPS View Drop Down
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Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dan MPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 08 at 11:25am

"old farts in Musto's" Well im 17 and the youth fleet seems to be coming along well! Come give us a race G.R.F!

Dan
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