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Symmetric pole systems
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redback View Drop Down
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Posts: 1502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Symmetric pole systems
    Posted: 10 Jan 08 at 5:35pm

Here's a thought.  The conventional system where shockcord is used in the lower part of the bridle to take up the slack is not a good idea.  In really strong winds the pole can still head skywards.  Much better is to use shockcord in the upper part of the bridle since all it has to do is support the pole, use rope in the bottom part so that it cannot stretch.

Another tip is to attach the lower end of the bridle to the deck in front of the mast (rather than on the mast).  Just 50mm or so and then the whole pole system will want to swing forwards which makes it easier to trim in light winds.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 08 at 7:57pm

Not really, Redback. The downward loading on the pole caused by the guy in its reaching cleat will easily overcome shockcord.

But the L2 system is already not bad in that the uphaul and downhaul are rope. The shockcord only takes up the slack after the rope downhaul has passed through a block on the foredeck (so that it can be knotted where it joins the shockcord such that the knot engages the block to limit elastic extension and prevent pole-skying). The block is, as you suggest, located some distance in front of the mast.

All I'd do there is replace the 4mm pre-stretched polyester of the uphaul-downhaul rope by Dyneema to eliminate stretch.
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 08 at 11:07pm
Right, so there is elastic in the system... Ideal.
The worst poles I ever used were ones on GP14s that ran up and down a wire on the front of the mast, stowing vertically.  The 'uphaul' was elastic you would tug on the guy and it would just go boing....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 08 at 11:46pm

 On the L2 the elastic just takes up the slack, also with the hook system it keeps the uphaul/downhaul tight and out of the way when the spinny is not in use. The part under tension is rope...I've never had a problem with that part of the arrangement.
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 08 at 12:20am
It was a just me being confused, I wasn't sure quite how the ropes were rigged in the cockpit.... 
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Posts: 588 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MerlinMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 08 at 5:25pm
Fantastically complex pole systems were one of the reasons I bought a Merlin Rocket.

Photo galleries of 2 boats show the most common system:
http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/.....rigging_guide/359 4
http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/....rigging_guide/3489

This has evolved over 60 years so much surely be reaching perfection sometime soon?!!
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 08 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by MerlinMags

Fantastically complex pole systems were one of the reasons I bought a Merlin Rocket.

Photo galleries of 2 boats show the most common system:
http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/.....rigging_guide/359 4
http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/....rigging_guide/3489

This has evolved over 60 years so much surely be reaching perfection sometime soon?!!


Some of the ones at the Tiger had twin pole systems though- rope multiplication! Think there's some 5o5s run those sort of systems too, aren't there? Far too many ropes for my liking. I could see the words "WHICH PURPLE ROPE?" preceding something wet, sore and possibly expensive.

slight detour- was introduced properly to the workings of the old-style B14 pole system (on Rondar-built boats in the UK) on Sunday. The outhaul system is, somehat oddly, mounted internally, with the whole in a built-in pipe from bow to mast-step.

The Ovington ones have it simpler- there's a trench down the middle of the bow with a removable maintanence cover, and the blocks etc are outside the pole, like you'd find on most assymetrics.
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HannahJ View Drop Down
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Posts: 861 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HannahJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 08 at 6:52pm
If the Merlin one is anything like that on an MRX (probably the same) then once it's set up it's very easy to use, you just shove the pole out and clip it on.
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 08 at 8:48pm
the twin pole ones don't seem to have any clipping to do, but must surely have seperate sheets/guys, two sets of pole up and down hauls, and two pole-out lines? Plus halyard and kite retrieval. Plus the thirty billion other adjustable bits for sails and rig.
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Posts: 2479 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 08 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by alstorer

the twin pole ones don't seem to have any clipping to do, but must surely have seperate sheets/guys, two sets of pole up and down hauls, and two pole-out lines? Plus halyard and kite retrieval. Plus the thirty billion other adjustable bits for sails and rig.


That's right, the Merlin poles are constantly connected to the sheets, when the snodger is released and the pole comes along the boom the sheet is allowed to float free. They have a pole uphaul on each pole, which is connected to one rope to control inside the boat. They don't normally have pole out lines, they clip on to the mast manually.
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