New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Women's High Performance Dinghy
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Women's High Performance Dinghy

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 11>
Author
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Women's High Performance Dinghy
    Posted: 04 Jan 07 at 9:52pm
I think we need some female input on this thread ...
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 1:05am
Originally posted by Jon Emmett

The reason the weight equalisation came off is...

Well really the reason it came off was that given Olympic level pressure it was believed by the sailors not to work. I think that would always be the case, so its not worth pursuing.

All else being equal I think a smaller boat with a full size rig is usually more fun than a larger boat with a cut down rig. On the other hand a larger boat with a cut down rig is usually easier to sail.
Back to Top
radial179102 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 05
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 198
Post Options Post Options   Quote radial179102 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 1:31am
The better people get in classes, usually the optimum weight comes down as kit develops and techniques are honed...

I don't know if that helps at all...

All that has been said throughout this thread is fairly useless (ducks and waits for punches) What needs to be done is some viable testing. Get girls out there in these boats and see what happens!!! Talking on a forum, no matter how interesting, is not accountable for anything...

Like I said, TESTING!!! Perhaps Y+Y should do a comparitive review (using female testers) using the RS800, 49er and 29er XX ?(and any other boat that may be up for selection that fits the criteria)


Villan is my Bitch ;)
Back to Top
k_kirk View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 06
Location: Japan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 172
Post Options Post Options   Quote k_kirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 3:50am

Interesting thread. Few comments.

While the official announcement came out few days ago the trial was widely known about and discussed in the industry since Q4 2006. I don't think this week's announcement came as a suprise to any manufacturer.

LDC's posting is very nice. I like their proactive communication style. I am sure they will have a great boat going into the trials.

29er footprint is getting hold with it being the 2007 & 2008 ISAF Youth's boat. This will push the 29er into markets where they were not sailed at the national level before.

Let me give you an example. Singapore Sailing does not seem to have Olympic level ambitions for 49er. They don't have any 49ers sailing in the national squads and hence did not have any 29er training for the young sailors. I recently heard that they ordered some 29ers to start preparing their youth sailors for the 2007 & 2008 youths.

What is the relevance of the example? Well, it is true that there are not that many all female twin trap teams around these days but as high performance boats such as 29er are sailed at ISAF Youths level going forward the foundation of sailors ready to go to the next step will grow. I am confident that by 2012 we will have many all female twin trap teams around to make this new Olympic class a success.

Personally, having a 29erXX myself, I am more than a little biased in this discussion but I'd like to end up by saying, whichever boat gets selected at the end of the day, it will be a great outcome for our sport as it will certainly increase interest at the national sailing level in many countries around the world and naturally increase the number of crews sailing and competing at the international level.

More people on the water = more boats to go around & more fun. Best of luck to all participating designers / builders.

Regards, KK

Back to Top
Iain C View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1113
Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 9:10am
Originally posted by English Dave

If the 49er had a weight equalisation thing a la RS800 then it would be possible to have a mixed high performance dinghy class at the Olympics. This would also allow the IOC to reduce the number of sailing medals,as per their intentions. At club level we all compete in mixed fleets. I know the 49er is seen as a bit of a macho beast but there should be no reason why an all female team could not compete in one.

By mixed I'm not sure if you mean girls/guys running separate races, same sex boats on the course at the same time, or girl driving/guy crewing or whatever.

However, if it's same sex boats on the course at the same time, true, upwind and down very wide 49er that has been weight equalised would be on an equal footing with the men of sorts.  But the girls would be at a disadvantage with the size of the kite...the girls who I know who sail skiffs such as 800s and Cherubs say that those kites (21sqm) are about as big as they would like to go when it comes to hoists and drops.  It's a biological fact that a gorilla in the front will get a 49er kite up and down faster than your average girlie just down to physical strength and stamina.

 

RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs"
Enterprise GBR21970
Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra"
Back to Top
MRJP BUZZ 585 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1496
Post Options Post Options   Quote MRJP BUZZ 585 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Iain C

Originally posted by English Dave

If the 49er had a weight equalisation thing a la RS800 then it would be possible to have a mixed high performance dinghy class at the Olympics. This would also allow the IOC to reduce the number of sailing medals,as per their intentions. At club level we all compete in mixed fleets. I know the 49er is seen as a bit of a macho beast but there should be no reason why an all female team could not compete in one.

By mixed I'm not sure if you mean girls/guys running separate races, same sex boats on the course at the same time, or girl driving/guy crewing or whatever.

However, if it's same sex boats on the course at the same time, true, upwind and down very wide 49er that has been weight equalised would be on an equal footing with the men of sorts.  But the girls would be at a disadvantage with the size of the kite...the girls who I know who sail skiffs such as 800s and Cherubs say that those kites (21sqm) are about as big as they would like to go when it comes to hoists and drops.  It's a biological fact that a gorilla in the front will get a 49er kite up and down faster than your average girlie just down to physical strength and stamina.

 

Very good point

Also the 49er kite is pretty heavy so a female crew might struggle abit with it as well.

Josh Preater

BUZZING IS FUN

Back to Top
moomin View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 19 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
Post Options Post Options   Quote moomin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 12:02pm

I think there is a more fundamental question that should be answered in olympic sailing, because I reckon that whatever boat is chosen the top sailors will adopt it in order to compete in the olympics.

The problem I see is that sailing is one of the very few sports along with show jumping that claims to allow men and women to compete against each other on the same race track ( good thing in my opinion). Yet the boats chosen for the "open" classes does not allow this to happen, currently the Finn, 49er and tornado.  There are numerous classes raced that would make this more realistic. Despite sailing a Europe I would not put forward the Europe as a contender for this, I believe being de-selected has done good things for the UK class (my opinion not necessarily that of the UK europe class assoc) If this is not addressed then there has to be an argument for removing the open classes (reducing the number of medals which is what ISAF want). 

Gareth

Europe 391

Back to Top
Scooby_simon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 02 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2415
Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by moomin

I think there is a more fundamental question that should be answered in olympic sailing, because I reckon that whatever boat is chosen the top sailors will adopt it in order to compete in the olympics.

The problem I see is that sailing is one of the very few sports along with show jumping that claims to allow men and women to compete against each other on the same race track ( good thing in my opinion). Yet the boats chosen for the "open" classes does not allow this to happen, currently the Finn, 49er and tornado.  There are numerous classes raced that would make this more realistic. Despite sailing a Europe I would not put forward the Europe as a contender for this, I believe being de-selected has done good things for the UK class (my opinion not necessarily that of the UK europe class assoc) If this is not addressed then there has to be an argument for removing the open classes (reducing the number of medals which is what ISAF want). 

Gareth

Europe 391

 

Disagre about the Tornado - do not see any reasons why a bloke could not crew for a girly and make the thing fly (would also have the lard in the right place).  Crew does most of the grunty work on the Tornado anyway...

Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
Back to Top
Jon Emmett View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 988
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 12:31pm
Brouwer Helms!  She is in the top twenty on the ISAF rankings.

Edited by Jon Emmett
Back to Top
KennyR View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 09 Jun 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 52
Post Options Post Options   Quote KennyR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 1:05pm

Originally posted by Adds

Umm, they have the Yngling, Star(ok popular with rich americans) and Skud!!!
And others that I don't think people would sail if they weren't olympic.

Just to correct the usual British 'not sailed here' attitude; the Star is not just popular amongst rich americans. There are something like 3000 active [i.e. regularly sailed] boats worldwide covering almost all major sailing countries [with a few notable expections - ok]. The class year book for last year has something like 150-200 pages of 2005 regatta and trophy results [not reports - just major fleet and district results in fairly small print].

Something like 70-80 boats have been built every year for as long as anyone can remember and if you just hop over the channel to Germany you'll find events that have had 60-80 boat turnouts there for years. Apart from there, near[ish] us there are good fleets in France, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finnland, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Portugal - now even Americans know those places are not in America. I wonder how many other classes [dinghy or keelboat] have anything like the wide geographic spread and numbers of active boats the Star has. [Starter for ten is the Laser.....]

Popular here no - ever seen one in the UK - there a few about in various places. Is it popular worldwide amongst 'club' sailors - an emphatic, undeniable yes. Hardest Worlds to win? No one can say but the Star has to be up there - remember only something like 3-4 sailors have retained a Star Worlds EVER, no one has ever won three in a row and no one has retained a Worlds title in over 20 years now. Maybe there is a good reason the star has been in te Circus for so long - and anyway what is wrong with a mix of 'traditional' events alongside 'modern' events in the games?

Right - back to discussing the girls twin wire boat.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 11>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy