Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Pay and play |
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turnturtle ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Pay n play is not about cheaping it up, it’s about lifestyle affordability. Oli seems to get the maths...
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423zero ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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I get the maths, the maths must add up, otherwise commercial centres wouldn't exist, just not sure where people are seeing Pay and Play fitting into existing structure we have today ?
I mainly own old boats ('legacy boats' some call them), would need somewhere to sail these.
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PeterG ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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My first reaction was it's ridiculously expensive, but then you do, as you say, have to factor in that it's on the outskirts of London, so prices are high, options to sail without a long drive are poor, and yoofs with disposable income are present in large numbers. So, yes, on one level it's a viable deal. But, and it's a big but, where it fails is that they don't have Aeros. They have lots of Picos, a few Lasers, and generally the a fleet that looks like a large club training fleet. No idea what condition the boats are in, but I don't mind guessing that you could pick up an equivalent Laser for £1000. If you want pay and play with boats like newish Aeros and a large staff making sure they are in the condition you would like your boat to be in when you come to sail, and enough boats that you can sail on the best days when everyone else wants to, then you are going to pay more - MUCH more. And if you want to try your hand in something tricky and vulnerable like a Musto or a foiling Moth, then the prices will rack up again. I'm not saying it wouldn't work for some, and compared to a London gym membership I'd rather be sailing on QM than sweating in a gym, but as a replacement for the sort of sailing that most people here want it's got a very long way to go. |
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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H2 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Fortunately the small number of people who post on here PeterG are not actually representative of the sailing public!
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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145 OK 2082 |
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Cirrus ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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1) It is not whether you can find a latent market for 'Pay N Play' .. that might exist or it might not. 2) But can you find anybody prepared to invest in the setup ? Risk capital does not grow on trees and this one really would look mighty risky. Answer to 1) ... Likely to be (very) limited indeed Answer to 2) .... Frankly NO ! as in 'not any time soon or never' You can speculate that the market is there or might change in the future all you like .. or put up your own money when you find others are reluctant to stump up the money .... Thought about it ? Take your time .... OK maybe not then.....
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turnturtle ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Would I put up my own money in a new venture? In certain circumstances, maybe with any luck future circumstances - yep I can see a possible situation.
Would I spend money from a club reserve account (assuming it had one) to seed fund proper class racing and encourage new and retain old Members? Yes. No question. |
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H2 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Risk capital does not grow on trees?? Really Cirrus because there are no companies raising money for models that serve the gig economy for which the revenue model is uncertain.....do you want me to list them for you?
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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145 OK 2082 |
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Cirrus ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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do you want me to list them for you? I've raised six figure sums of risk capital on two occasions from hard nosed investors. It can be done and I do know a fair bit about how it is really done - and not just in theory. I can list exceptions that did make it as well .. but they really are very far from being the majority. Would I invest in this model or even think reasonable terms were somehow possible - No ! But that maybe just me. Furthermore I think if it was a decent investable model you or someone else would surely be doing it already here or somewhere overseas. Frankly the entire small boat market is not right for it. My view ? The figures simply don't stack up and will not in the forseeable future either.
Edited by Cirrus - 01 Jun 18 at 10:27am |
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H2 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Cirrus - I have raised more than 50m in equity from some of the world largest companies for the start ups that I have led over the last 15 years all of which would be considered very high risk. My current company serves 63m customers in 11 countries all via mobile which I am selling to one of the worlds largest companies. I get it, believe me.
Would I personally invest in P&P site - no. Would it be possible to raise money - yes.
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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145 OK 2082 |
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Oli ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
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so if pay n play isn't viable at your location due to lack of startup capital, how about a more direct boat share initiative where perhaps a few people share the cost of owning/operating privately and have usual time share agreements for use? Or even a less direct one where the owner takes the initial capital hit and rents the boat out when not in use more like airbnb? my concern here would be insurance.
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