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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Jun 17 at 7:41pm
I wonder whether a better guide to the success of the AC to "bring people to the sport" is in the hire of cats at sailing centres like Sunsail and Wildwind? Or the take up of sailing holidays in general.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 1:56am
Dougal, I agree that we shouldn't take the numbers too much at face value. Like you, I think they are probably a fairly good indicator of trends, especially since they give us a way of comparing across time and across countries. I'm with you on the demographic and elitism problem too, although hopefully in the future the Opti kids will get back into sailing - if there is still a sport they can get back into at a reasonable cost in time and money.

Yesterday I found a speech given by one of the OTUSA brains trust when they announced that the Cup would be going to cats. It was interesting because some of the contents seem to be very revealing, and sadly they may reveal that he was just working off preconceptions and incorrect beliefs.

It's hard to compare the UK interest in the current cup with recent ACs because it's your first entry in eons. Down here it seems to be getting little press. What is really remarkable is looking at the US NBC Sports Network ratings. In the first week of televised racing the AC did well on a couple of days, but a lot of the time it rated lower than swimming and a dog agility competition. Considering the cash that has gone into it, that's a pretty damning result. 

Given Coutts' desire to make the AC "like F1" it's also .interesting to see how badly even the Monaco round of F1 rates in the USA - it's about 1/7th as popular as pickup truck racing. When Pixel the miniature sheepdog rates higher than Sir Ben and Spithill, the AC doesn't seem to be working that well at attracting the masses.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 10:16am
Good points all Chris, what interests me is the very different dynamic that operates here in the UK (compared to say...Germany or Denmark). Looking at the UK AC entry, it was built around the individual, hugely talented and successful he may be. Even that has a taste of 'our way' of doing things - go back to the football and the World Cup in 2006 and our talisman then was Wayne Rooney. He breaks a bone in his foot and the whole campaign stutters and ultimately fails. Ditto many other sports - look at how Jonnie Wilkinson was a similar talisman in the Rugby. But back to the mainstream of sailing and the potential for 'pull through' from the high profile stadium events (which is the  golden dream for those who run the sport here.....expect another glitzy away day soon to discuss just this topic, except for the fact that only a selected, friendly audience will get an invite). In the past the rapid and hard driven evolution of dinghy racing in the UK has  given us 'world leader' credentials but these  are now from yesteryear - what is more important is one what happens next. That constant evolution was fine back in the days when classes were counting new boats each year in the 100s, but like a Ponzi scheme, the bubble will burst and here at home it has. Some of the superb boats now made in FRP by builders such as Dave Winder can still be front of the fleet competitive at 10 years old, yet behind them there is a continuing proliferation - and therefore fragmentation of what used to be a stable club scene. Take this, then apply that rather jingoistic 'Brits are best' approach (an example: the selection Trials for the Women's skiff at Santander.....and the howls of disbelief when the 49erfx was chosen, though most of the comment from outside the UK had taken this almost for granted) and then add on top the demographic time bomb, an organisation that is focused on success at the Olympics and Youth Worlds and you have a tricky scene with an uncertain future. I'll now get flamed for saying these many heretical comments 'out loud' BUT.....it will be one thing losing to Denmark, another when it is an emergent third world country that pushes us back another place.
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

AC doesn't seem to be working that well at attracting the masses.

The AC has only ever been a pissing contest between rich blokes ... or blokes that can get their hands on other rich blokes money ....

It has nothing to do with attracting people to the sport.

They don't run F1 to attract people to motor racing ... it is an entertainments business to make money.


Edited by 2547 - 15 Jun 17 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote FreshScum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

... Ditto many other sports - look at how Jonnie Wilkinson was a similar talisman in the Rugby...

Totally agree with everything you said Dougal, apart from Jonny. The World Cup winning team in 2003 was genuinely, man for man, arguably the best in every position. They had made winning a habit in a way that English football could only dream of in the build up to that event. I believe that Jonny was important, but not crucial to their success, and as with Dan Carter and the All Blacks in 2011, they might have been triumphant even if he had been injured.

...anyway...diversion over, back to sailing!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 6:58pm
Exactly 2547 @2:06pm.

You could just as easily make a case for it being an elitist turn off.

Technical wonders they may be to marvel at but very much like or even more so than an F1 car their window of application is pretty narrow. What wind speed to they bin it at? 

A what? 50 year old? class like a Fireball or 505 racing in a top end F5 strikes me as both  accessible and inspirational.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 9:17pm
I've found watching the AC races a bit like eating McDonalds.  Fills me up for 5 minutes and then I need another.....and like McDonalds I don't enjoy it enough to sign up (for free) to BT Sport to get it. Last year was better - as fast food it was probably pizza or a good kebab.  Wheras the lead mines were a carvery roast in a country pub with a couple of beers and sticky toffee pudding for afters.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 9:47pm
Have to agree with the last few posts.
The boats are technologically very advanced and impressive and all that, but once they are going along in a straight line, speed aside there is nothing going on save grinders being ground. The format of racing is basically dumbed down for the masses. Dare say the business case stacks up, but I don't believe it's what most real racing sailors would chose to watch, or even compete in given a choice.
Would anyone here do racing on their own dollar that was 15 minute crash and burn, frankly dangerous stuff where the boat falls apart every day and 5 of the crew of 7 are basically just power generation?
I know that equivalent quality footage and analysis of the Olympic classes (tbh mostly the slower ones too) or even decent quality national or international class stuff around "proper" courses is what I would be most likely to pay to watch.
You get to see skill displayed In a range of different styles, which differentiates the crews, often coupled to athleticism. And tactics and fleet management going on. Not just leader picks one side second place has to pick the other side.
Admittedly it's closest to the type of racing I would want to be doing myself, but from an interest POV you hear a lot of positivity from non sailors about watching the Olympic class boats actually being sailed. It's not some bloke in skin tight Lycra and A helmet giving it the blue steel whilst turning a wheel a degree or so here and there and talking about his hydraulic power reserves intermittently.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 17 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Chris 249

AC doesn't seem to be working that well at attracting the masses.

The AC has only ever been a pissing contest between rich blokes ... or blokes that can get their hands on other rich blokes money ....

It has nothing to do with attracting people to the sport.

They don't run F1 to attract people to motor racing ... it is an entertainments business to make money.
That's true. The difference here is that people like Coutts claimed that the 'new' Cup WOULD attract people to the AC and to the sport. They made a claim that they have not achieved. If they don't want to be held to that claim, then they should not have made it.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 17 at 7:27am
The "old" AC, looking back to J class (which, I'm sure I've read, were brought in to keep costs down) and beyond, has the same fascination as huge country houses, very posh racing stables and the like. Watching how rich people spend their money, squander their wealth, however you want to put it, has always been a passtime for the rest of us, whether we approve or disapprove.
This new lot, pretending they care whether it brings people into the sport, have lost all that, really. The boats are like F1, they should be like wild and whacky supercars, battling it out while the world looks on in bemusement. Companies like Land Rover shouldn't be close to being able to join in.
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