Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
![]() |
Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
![]() |
Laser 161752 Tynemouth |
![]() |
List classes of boat for sale |
Gybing Plates |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <1 23456 7> |
Author | |||
JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 27 Jan 16 at 4:20pm |
||
Yeah, pretty much.
The board must create lift to resist the push from the sails. In order to create lift it must be at an angle to the water. So think about the pointing too high thing. Point too high and you still have loads of side load from the sails, so you still need a lot of lift from the board to balance it. However you have less forward drive from the sails, so you go slower. As you're going slower lift from the board reduces, so to get the same amount of lift you need more angle between board and water, so when the boat is in equilibrium its crabbing sideways more and creating loads of drag. Now suppose you have an an adjustable gybing centreboard. Lets say the boat is making a course good of 45 degrees, and has 8 degrees of leeway, or angle of attack, with the board on the centreline. So the bow is going to be pointing 37 degrees, and say, for arguments sake, the sails are at 5 degrees to the centreline, so pointing 32 degrees. Now dial on 8 degrees on the board. The boat is still making good 45 degrees, but the bow is now pointing 45 degrees too, so no leeway, and to keep the telltales right you've sheeted out that same 8 degrees, so the sails are at 13 degrees to the centreline. But the essential relationship between sails at 32 degrees and foils at 37 degrees is unchanged. Hey, I've just thought of a demon tweak for a Moth. Give it an adjustable gybing daggerboard and the sailor could align the hull with the apparent wind in order to minimise aero drag! Anyway, to summarise, like a lot of things on boats, leeway and weather helm have to be like little Bear's porridge, just right, and too much and too little are both faults. Edited by JimC - 27 Jan 16 at 4:22pm |
|||
![]() |
|||
iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
So now, currently, standard CB or Dagger, to help me fully understand this use of the term 'leeway' is the 4 degrees or 8 degrees whatever, derived from a tangent of the leading edge of the foil?
I think we need a little sketch with arrow things and angles as you would a child in geometry 101 if you'll excuse the americanism Edited by iGRF - 27 Jan 16 at 4:42pm |
|||
![]() |
|||
Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Leeway = angle between heading and course sailed through the water. Also = AoA of foil aligned with centreline. (IANANA). ![]() |
|||
![]() |
|||
Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
|||
![]() |
|||
I luv Wight ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 628 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
For a gybing board, the board is the same angle to the blue lines as above, but it's the hull that is rotated ( anticlockwise here ) by the leeway angle, so the blue lines ( track ) line up with the fore / aft lines of the hull.
Which can mean less drag off the hull. So you make better height to windward because you're not slipping sideways as much, or you can sail a bit faster until the drag catches up again. I've made boards for 5o5s, with gybe angle of 2degrees, with angles of up to 6 degrees for Hornets that have thick, short-chord small foils. Hornets have buttons in the case, so the board locks straight when lifted a little, 5o5s use bumps on the board that lock the board sideways in the case when lifted a bit. A little forward rake to gybe the board, vertical and raked to lock. Gybing boards work best in flat water, in waves you don't get the drag reduction as the water is moving about, so boats lock the board for wavy conditions |
|||
![]() |
|||
rogerd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1076 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Terrible new but at least the Classic Boat museum hadn't started its move to the site and now the building earmarked for them is being used to help these businesses get back up and running. |
|||
![]() |
|||
423zero ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Gybing the board turns the hull parallel to its true track through the water, removing large drag from hull to smaller drag off gybing board, is that correct ?
Presumably light winds no benefit ?
|
|||
![]() |
|||
2547 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
This gybing board will be mustard at helping you to further exploit the lee bow effect ...
|
|||
![]() |
|||
iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Fuller rule number 1. Never trust anything prepared by an advocate of Cat sailing.
That diagram without context is convoluted. I need something simpler and more relevant to displacement speeds, those true/apparent wind angles are off any scale we'll likely experience. oh and 2547 not much tidal lee bow effect going on at our lake unsurprisingly. Edited by iGRF - 27 Jan 16 at 8:21pm |
|||
![]() |
|||
Daniel Holman ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
bang on Jim. In reality the rudder is about a degree or two further yawed than dagger for same Cl as its operating in the downwash. Also, in a non steady state you'll be running a variable side force off the rudder so may load it up a bit less to get a similar RMS value or Cl. High aspect boards like to operate ~ 4 deg AoA (less and they are dragging too much WSA, more and too much induced. Low aspect foils best at sat 2 deg as induced drag more expensive. Even with high aspect foils, you wouldn't want to show the hull that much AoA (leeway) as its a 1:20 aspect ratio foil and will be picking up a lot of induced. Its easy to design / size foils for slow boats, as they go the same speed once up to speed. HP boats are generally massively over finned as they can go say 50% faster in wind than when just powered, for same RM i.e. side force. Mind you all that area is generally needed for getting out of tacks in most boats. Dan |
|||
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <1 23456 7> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |