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turnturtle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Who runs the galley at your club then tick? I'm embarrassed to say that even though I'm trying to have them replaced by a machine, our tea is almost 100% dispensed by wimmen, Saint Mary and Sharon (she's not been there long enough to be fully canonised)run the Galley rota amongst the sailing widows, occasionally guys to get involved, the re constructed ones, but we don't have that many of them. 


Here's a thought for you... you're Commodore right?  How's that set up, are you a director of the trading entity Hythe SC Limited or whatever?  

If so, if one of your volunteers inadvertently gives someone food poisoning, or maybe tells someone with a serious food allergy that something is freeform when it isn't, are you personally liable for their losses?  

I wonder have you sent them off for C&G food handling/hygiene courses?  It's pretty basic stuff when you operate a business that sells food and beverage as part of its offering, even if you don't profit from it yourselves- after all there are plenty of food service outlets which don't turn a profit for the Directors! 

I wonder, does your PLI cover it with a catch-all, or are you in a breach of clauses within it and possibly, statutory regulation?    

Genuine question... maybe for another thread.  Either way, I'd use a subcontractor catering company if i were you.


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 12:24pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 12:36pm
Oh good grief. The requirements and pitfalls of volunteer run catering for clubs and societies are widely understood and disseminated, not least by local authorities. There is no need to go to catering companies. Don't doom and gloom about what it appears you don't understand. I don't get involved in that stuff myself, but I do know that my club has a 5 star health rating from the LA inspection.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by JimC

what it appears you don't understand.

You are quite right, I bow to your better insight into clauses and exceptions of the Public Liability Insurance of another forum member's club....  

There is no legislation for formal 3rd party training for food handlers, however under EU Law, training for all food handlers is required, even if this training is considered 'on-the-job'.   As a matter of standard practice, most bars and cafes will use the C&G systems for arse covering exercises.  However A person responsible for the training should be sufficiently trained in HACCP under statutory legislation, and if that person does not exist, maybe a rear commodore in SC terms, I'm afraid it passes up the chain to someone in authority- the company director seems the likely candidate.  

I wouldn't want to test a defence on food posioning, especially around children, based on 'But Mavis was a volunteer' and 'I only took the commodore gig for the car space'.... not in today's H&S conscious world.  
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 12:48pm
We have a lot more tick lists and form filling these days, but the basics of selling tea and cake doesn't seem to have changed that much when actually doing it. We have a right mix of people running the kitchen. Mostly older members who don't fancy yanking poeple out of the lake and don't want to be dealing with race starts. Maybe more female than male - not sure really.

The Fevas are popular for doublehanding with the Juniors, but once they have to beg, buy or borrow a boat to go faster, currently it is mostly singlehanders. 3 or 4 years ago, L3000s were popular, but with a "generation" passing through in about that length of time (pass stage 4 at  about 14, say, then 4 years later get caught up with A levels then off to uni) things change.

I hope we can get more 2 handers out, as at the end of last year there was more interest in symmetric spinnakers again.
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Spot on Jim c.All clubs need is a couple of numbers to do hygiene courses( Which can be done online in a couple of hours at most) to forfill necessary regs.
Turnturtle,surely you must be aware that most clubs are voluntary organisations not Ltd companies and could not afford or want outsourced catering.

Edited by ds2 - 02 Feb 15 at 12:50pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by ds2

Turnturtle,surely you must be aware that most clubs are voluntary organisations not Ltd companies and could not afford or want outsourced catering.

I would have thought quite a few are run through incorporated entities, even if they are not for profit.  

I've no idea- the three I've been a member of most recently certainly are.  I just checked Companies House to verify.  

As for outsourced catering.... seems fairly simple to me, and significantly reduces cost and overhead.

When I turn up at riding events there's often catering vans running all sorts of cuisine- and usually far better quality than what Mavis churns out of her cauldron.  But sorry, I forgot... dinghy sailors.  Far too parsimonious to pay a few quid for a quality bacon batch or a decent bowl of noodles.  
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Woodbotherer

Who runs the galley at your club then tick? I'm embarrassed to say that even though I'm trying to have them replaced by a machine, our tea is almost 100% dispensed by wimmen, Saint Mary and Sharon (she's not been there long enough to be fully canonised)run the Galley rota amongst the sailing widows, occasionally guys to get involved, the re constructed ones, but we don't have that many of them. 


Here's a thought for you... you're Commodore right?  How's that set up, are you a director of the trading entity Hythe SC Limited or whatever?  



Sadly not, or there's a bunch of them I'd have sacked, I hate it as it is, all this having to consult with committees about my brilliance and why don't they get it.. Wink

AFAIK Elf and Safety have inspected the kitchen, part of my current drive is to switch the galley over to the same side of the building as the bar so we can reduce staffing and gain a training room where the existing galley is. We applied for planning consent last year, the local council objected (because we included a balcony that overlooked the boat park and caught the afternoon sun)we re submitted but there is some other mistake in the architects drawings, it goes on and on. Committees, Councils, all getting in the way...
One of our committee guys is an insurance broker he assures me we're covered for most liabilities.

At the moment my main beef is that most of us do things f.o.c for the club but there has been a fairly recent culture by the previous administration some of who are still present, of paying certain club members to do things. We recently had a garage door replaced it's just an up and over thing, but the offenders charged £300 to fit it whilst others just do things for the good of the club and it winds me up tighter than a watch spring, particularly since the weekend before the door expenditure I'd worked from 6 til midnight on bar duty for ef all and earned about 300 quid...


Edited by Woodbotherer - 02 Feb 15 at 1:06pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

 

Sadly not, 

who owns the club building then?  Genuine question, is there some kind of membership charter or something?  I'd have thought any club with assets and statements of income vs expenditure would have to formalise in one way or another- for their own security and protection apart from anything else.  

What's the other options to LLP or Ltd?  

And yes, losing the kitchen to a catering van or into the bar streamlines the real estate, making for more flexible space inside in the warm.  


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Feb 15 at 1:16pm
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 1:14pm
This thing about not having a crew/helm to sail with.....  We had a meeting of club instructors last week and we reckon for everyone wishing in the club wishing they had a crew there is also someone wishing they had a helm.  We have three Sport England funded Vagod sitting in our boat park, and though they are well used for training and by various groups during the week, they dont see much race action.  We're now starting an initiative to try and change that by creating a season ticket boat hire system, cutting the hire fee generally, creating a pool of potential sailors who can be paired up, and possibly running a mini Vago league wher ethe people get the points as individuals not as boats/pairs.  We also have someone happy to take ownership of this and stand in as crew or helm if someone wants to sail and doesnt have a partner.
the same, but different...

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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 15 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

of paying certain club members to do things.

Sounds like a tricky area... If you're going to have to pay people to do stuff anyway then paying club members, especially if its at 'mates rates', does seem like a good idea, especially if they have liability insurance and the like for tasks where that would be valuable. Keeps it in the family and all that. But on the other hand if some people get paid and some don't then that's potentially divisive as you highlight.

But the other side of the coin is that I reckon I've seen good natured working people exploited by clubs full of people who earn far more than they do, but don't happen to do something that would be useful for the club.

I really don't think there are easy answers.
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