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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by blaze720

It is very unlikely  to make any difference to the overall results .... so why not allow all to 'qualify' ... if they have to count a couple of DNS what problem does it cause anyone ?

You want club membership and racing to prosper ? Yes ?  Start by getting rid of petty stuff that hacks off the 'occasional' racers.  If you don't start from that position .. don't expect them to renew their subscriptions in the same numbers every year either.    Remember THEY subsidise the regular racers !!

The same thing applies to 'personal handicap' racing ... it really does encourage the back of the fleet (aka 'participation') .  So what if it is not 'purist' ... Golf clubs do rather well out of the concept and there will still be plenty of 'open' (no personal handicap) competition at sailing clubs as well if they went that way a bit more often.  

Move forward.   The choice is 'adapt'  ... or else ....

Mike L.

PS - I think Will Carling had a few comments on those with rather 'traditional views'  as well ... Wink


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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 4:35pm
There's an awful lot you can do in Sailwave to score series within series without having to enter the results multiple times: its very flexible in that regard. But what stuffs that sort of thing for me is when people swap boats. We score the sailor, no matter what boat they are in, which is good for encouraging turnouts I think, but a real pain in the neck for scoring if you are doing subclasses, dual scoring and the like. When I score the results for our dual handicapped series I usually spend 5 minutes putting 90% plus of the results in, and what feels like half an hour or more sorting out people with different boats, new members and the like which comprise the rest...
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by winging it

The series I run for the kids is held over the summer holidays which means a lot of them will miss races because of being away.  I therefore allow them two weeks' worth of discards, plus everyone gets a place anway.  We use the term 'qualify' simply to get them used to the process as well as to encourage turnout.  It's a sponsored sereis with good prizes so worth getting out for.

In terms of formats, the thing putting me off racing the D1 at Grafham is that there are lots of tiny fleets.  If I race with the assy fleet there will only be about six boats - and that's on a good day.  Surely for a winter series best to merge at least inot fast and slow handicap.

At the moment I'd be better off RTC at Hunts to get used to sailing it with lots of boats around, and just going to Grafham to practice the kite work.

I think you need to put that theory to the test to see what works better.  Talking from experience of the 100, I'd rather have used it in a mixed fleet of 5 average speed asymmetrics (400s/200s/4000s etc) than RTC with Lasers and Phantoms and Five-Ohs.  

Firstly the nature of the racing is different, and having a unarig luff you when trying to hoist is a PITA, as is taking them high off their rhumline if they decide to go to windward just before you heat up.  

Secondly you won't realise the kite is quite so pointless for RTC sailing if you all have one  LOL


Edited by yellowwelly - 03 Dec 13 at 4:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 4:39pm
What about series length? Personally I prefer shorter series and would be happy to count most races in the score (e.g. 4 from 5).

Twelve or fourteen race series seem pointless - if everyone is turning up then will the results be much changed after the 5th race? With a six from 12 format we get plenty of examples where boats never actually race each other on the water yet get counted in the same series!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Peaky

What about series length?

That's another interesting one... Is it more likely that people can make 6 races over 12 weeks or 3 races over 6 weeks?

The thing I have against lots of short series is, lets suppose your club has a budget of 12 bottles of wine/engraved glasses/whatever your prizes are. If you have 6 short series prizes go to the top 2 and quite probably the same two people get all of them anyway. If you have one long series then 12 different people get prizes.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 5:03pm
James, I'm only talking the occasional club race, and I wouldn't bother with the kite.
the same, but different...

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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 5:10pm
fair enough ;-)  

let us know how that goes, seriously... do.  I'd love to see what would happen if a D-One deliberately raced without its kite on a small RTC inland course sailing by the lee when it could with that superbly cut, fully battened mainsail.... 

corrected times and spreadsheet aside, that could be one demon of a boat across the line.    
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Time Lord View Drop Down
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Posts: 301 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 5:34pm
We have recently got rid of the qualification nonsense at Banbury even though it was only 25% of races sailed by the fleet concerned. However we always used to list their results even when they haven't qualified but now it is better when we just score everybody who took part.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Time Lord

We have recently got rid of the qualification nonsense at Banbury even though it was only 25% of races sailed by the fleet concerned. However we always used to list their results even when they haven't qualified but now it is better when we just score everybody who took part.

I'm fairly sure that's the same up the road at Draycote these days too...   I was surprised to see 'qualification' even mentioned today, I thought it went out with Mast Abeam.  

Quick question Time Lord- should probably send a private message to you, but I thought Banbury SC had a handicap cut off of 1000 PY, yet you've got Merlin... is that little rule open to discussion for new members?  
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Time Lord View Drop Down
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Posts: 301 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 5:49pm
The 1000 lower limit on handicap was set in the days (not long ago) when the Merlin rating was 1040 and was only intended when it was brought in to apply to the Menagerie fleet.

When it mysteriously dropped below 1000 last year, there was surpringly little opposition to the Merlin fleer continuing to sail at the club as they have done since the early 1950s.

On our water, it is very difficult to sail to this handicap anyway compared with the sea and large reservoir clubs where you can set big courses to take advantage of the spinnaker.

As for a discussion on other boats which hover around 1000, why not PM me as always happy to talk. I reckon the Phantom (we have one in the club) is the next obvious candidate for the drop.
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