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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another club closure
    Posted: 27 May 22 at 8:09am
Cost is interesting; the country’s fallen into tough times and, worryingly, this could only be the start.

New boat prices, pretty much across the board are running around 50% higher than 5 or 6 years ago. But second hand prices have hardly moved; good if you are in a position to buy, bad if you want to upgrade to a new ship.

A few years ago, a work colleague and I had a discussion about spending on our sport, catalysed by the sort of misinformed cliché jibe we are all used to.

He was a mad Liverpool FC fan, travelled (from London) to most games at Anfield to use his season ticket and also went to games in the capital. He discovered that he spent significantly more than I did over 5 years (including me buying the 100, travelling to most events, buying new rags as required) just to watch football. (we excluded beer budget, but he trumped me there too and looked like it. My sport’s active, his required sitting down). I suspect his inflation since is probably higher than mine. Football’s still seems to be booming, covid notwithstanding.

Meantime I’d wager 80% of sailing club members don't spend £50 per year on their boat, and 50% don't spend a brass farthing. Cost is therefore club subs and berthing fees, insurance and travel back and forth. Nevertheless, I am constantly amazed that there are so few dinghies for sale, given the general financial situation.

The beancounter in me is trying to evaluate the (dinghy) sailing club going-concern financial safety margin. It’s tricky, but I suspect a ratio of boat park numbers to property costs (rent, rates, power) would be a good start. Different rules for clubs that are primarily bars and restaurants or focus on floating caravans though.
Great book for Club Sailors here
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 8:20am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Once the interest in paddling a plank around the pond wears off perhaps you can entice them into a boat, afterall why stand when you can sit down?

definitely  Clap. And yes it does, certainly in wind-blown conditions, whereas when its glassy it can be totally serene.  

So a club that can turn that negative into a positive by providing a boat to go sailing on when there's a bit of breeze, is certainly a more rewarding experience than having a crappy SUP that can convert into a crappy Windsurf Board.  

I've barely used my wing sail for my SUP (they really need foil boards despite the marketing BS)- when there's breeze I hire boats - far better TOW


Edited by turnturtle - 27 May 22 at 8:27am
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 8:40am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

means that clubs need to focus on training first and foremost and accept racing is a minority part of their existence, whereas to date for most clubs it is the other way round.


+1

However even then it is difficult to get right. One of my clubs has a bigger rec/informal training side than the racing. We see a lot of churn with each year's intake. Think it comes down to two issues:

the training is so informal and basic that the attendees don't get any sense of progression, just a nice potter around.

There seems little attempt (though in part covid has been an issue) to bind people in socially by inviting them to hang around at the club afterwards. I think unless you make it a specific invite new people will often drift off as they maybe don't want to feel like they are impinging on the regulars.

A point missed when being down on mainly recreational watersports like sup is that there is more time and opportunity for social connections, which is the real reason most people do leisure activities in the first place. The scoresheet is a minor consideration even for most who compete. Without the social glue, comparatively 'irrational' (ie sailing, lots of buck for relatively little bang) sports will struggle to retain people.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 9:29am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Yep noted Clive - play the game not the player.

Duncan felt the need to get personal, his choice, I've broad shoulders .

LOL Now that is funny.

James you really could try out at a comedy story somewhere  Wink

Nice to see this thread is back to positively looking for solutions to sailing many problems  Thumbs Up


Edited by Grumpycat - 27 May 22 at 9:32am
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 9:33am
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Originally posted by maxibuddah

means that clubs need to focus on training first and foremost and accept racing is a minority part of their existence, whereas to date for most clubs it is the other way round.


+1

However even then it is difficult to get right. One of my clubs has a bigger rec/informal training side than the racing. We see a lot of churn with each year's intake. Think it comes down to two issues:

the training is so informal and basic that the attendees don't get any sense of progression, just a nice potter around.

There seems little attempt (though in part covid has been an issue) to bind people in socially by inviting them to hang around at the club afterwards. I think unless you make it a specific invite new people will often drift off as they maybe don't want to feel like they are impinging on the regulars.

A point missed when being down on mainly recreational watersports like sup is that there is more time and opportunity for social connections, which is the real reason most people do leisure activities in the first place. The scoresheet is a minor consideration even for most who compete. Without the social glue, comparatively 'irrational' (ie sailing, lots of buck for relatively little bang) sports will struggle to retain people.


+1

I think recognising exactly what a club provides is crucial to making them a better place and you've hit the nail on the head.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 9:34am
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Originally posted by maxibuddah

means that clubs need to focus on training first and foremost and accept racing is a minority part of their existence, whereas to date for most clubs it is the other way round.


+1

However even then it is difficult to get right. One of my clubs has a bigger rec/informal training side than the racing. We see a lot of churn with each year's intake. Think it comes down to two issues:

the training is so informal and basic that the attendees don't get any sense of progression, just a nice potter around.

There seems little attempt (though in part covid has been an issue) to bind people in socially by inviting them to hang around at the club afterwards. I think unless you make it a specific invite new people will often drift off as they maybe don't want to feel like they are impinging on the regulars.

A point missed when being down on mainly recreational watersports like sup is that there is more time and opportunity for social connections, which is the real reason most people do leisure activities in the first place. The scoresheet is a minor consideration even for most who compete. Without the social glue, comparatively 'irrational' (ie sailing, lots of buck for relatively little bang) sports will struggle to retain people.
+2 Totally agree 
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Grumpycat

 

LOL Now that is funny.

James you really could try out at a comedy story somewhere  Wink

Well I did reach out to you via PM - even I acknowledge when a point has been laboured - all I got back was an abusive message headlined by an acceptance that, in your words, you know the writing is on the wall for your club and it won't live out your generation.

All I have done is suggest a reasonably minor reason as to what might contribute to that based on colloquial experience, this has been countered effectively by others, and in the spirit of lively debate - take from that what you will, but it's not my generation who are driving certain clubs out existence, is it?

Anyway - back to the ideas of training and engagement.  


Edited by turnturtle - 27 May 22 at 9:54am
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 9:52am
The football analogy is useful Clive - especially when facing narratives of elitism in equipment sport.  I've seen it used effectively in cycling for sure.

I do wonder if sailing in general has a bit of parsimony issue - even at the worst blips of poor decision making in boat buying coupled with running costs - I doubt many of us ever spent close the depreciation on a fancy car or even a modest holiday.

And as we all know, some boats more than hold their own - I wish I still had my £3k RS200 now!!!
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 10:09am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Grumpycat

 

LOL Now that is funny.

James you really could try out at a comedy story somewhere  Wink

Well I did reach out to you via PM - even I acknowledge when a point has been laboured - all I got back was an abusive message headlined by an acceptance that, in your words, you know the writing is on the wall for your club and it won't live out your generation.

All I have done is suggest a reasonably minor reason as to what might contribute to that based on colloquial experience, this has been countered effectively in the spirit of lively debate - take from that what you will, but it's not my generation who are driving certain clubs out existence, is it?

Anyway - back to the ideas of training and engagement.  

All you have done is prove what I said to you in that private message. I wont drop to your level to repeat what you said in the first place to provoke that response.
Look just move on, I am wrong, you are right . You are the messiah  Wink
Let’s stop fighting like two 7 year old in the school yard and let the the sensible adults in room talk about important problems in a sensible way. 



Edited by Grumpycat - 27 May 22 at 10:10am
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 10:12am
Football for the most part is engrained into your soul at a young age. You grow up with it and junior wants a new shirt each season at a rediculous cost. But they do and that will be the reason they get a season tcket if they can ever afford one, and they travel. Football, like a lot of sports is a religion, you have faith. There is no rational about it, which is why they lavish vast amounts of money on it.

Sailing on the whole is not a sport you can watch, lets face it on the whole its boring to watch, unless of course you are really into it. There are no teams to get behind to generate that 'faith following'. So unless you were brought up on it you are going to struggle to get people to commit in the same manner.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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