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Another club closure

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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another club closure
    Posted: 26 May 22 at 2:46am
Originally posted by DiscoBall



All activities (especially complex equipment based sports) probably have a finite life cycle - the keenest people end up running things and can't conceive that other people aren't as obsessed or struggle to catch up to the present state of the art. Easier to damn outsiders as lazy than consider trying to limit development or backtrack.

So either the sport disappears or some disruptive development moves things back to the centre ground. Of course anything that democratise and popularise a sport will be sniffed at by many who are at the elite end... I wonder if many clinker boat owners of the 1950-60s were disparaging about the boxy plywood boats of the dinghy boom?

The concept's being called "innovation overshoot" by some. As they say, "Sports, in particular equipment-based, “lifestyle” sports can experience a rapid rise in popularity but eventually technology-driven competition leads to equipment overshooting the capabilities and financial budgets of users. This ‘innovation overshoot’ leads to a decline in participation and the eventual collapse of the market for the sport’s equipment."

The research I have done confirms that yes, many clinker/carvel dinghy owners were very disparaging about the boxy plywood boats, and of one designs in general. Reading Beecher Moore's accounts, the snobbery was such that many of the ply-boat owners went out and formed their own clubs on waterways that had not previously been used for sailing, so in some ways the snobbery could have been a good thing.

It's hard to find a positive side in the current snobbery towards "mainstream" boats we often see. The weird thing is that the hype about hyperperformance continues even though they have been around for a couple of decades now and still not one such boat class has achieved real popularity. Never has reality been ignored by so long by so many.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 5:26am
Originally posted by Grumpycat


Originally posted by turnturtle


Originally posted by Grumpycat

I think you have summed yourself up quite well tt,
Me I am just boring

never a truer word said on this forum  Wink

LOL Sorry i didn’t answer earlier, to busy sailing and having a laugh with friends.
Base wind was 12mph gusting 22mph , finished 2nd and had a glass of wine afterwards. A very pleasant way to spend a Wednesday evening .  Smile


Sounds great Duncan, I do hope the shine wasn't taken off when that ‘finishing second’ was pushed through the spreadsheet of pointlessness …

Anyway, that sounds like a nicer evening than catching up on work, albeit after a day in the saddle finding this place:



I guess there are some perks to modern, post Covid working practices … not as many being retired though


Edited by turnturtle - 26 May 22 at 7:17am
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 9:21am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Grumpycat


Originally posted by turnturtle


Originally posted by Grumpycat

I think you have summed yourself up quite well tt,
Me I am just boring

never a truer word said on this forum  Wink

LOL Sorry i didn’t answer earlier, to busy sailing and having a laugh with friends.
Base wind was 12mph gusting 22mph , finished 2nd and had a glass of wine afterwards. A very pleasant way to spend a Wednesday evening .  Smile


Sounds great Duncan, I do hope the shine wasn't taken off when that ‘finishing second’ was pushed through the spreadsheet of pointlessness …

Anyway, that sounds like a nicer evening than catching up on work, albeit after a day in the saddle finding this place:



I guess there are some perks to modern, post Covid working practices … not as many being retired though

You forget, as always , we sail PURSUITS . So all the spreadsheet work is done before the race  Wink.
I caught and got past the past the slow boats easily but spent too long having a very enjoyable dice with a well sailed Aero 7 to be able to challenge the winning Supernova, sailed by one of the best sailors in the club.
Still loving the D-zero by the way, it works over a range of conditions, it’s surprisingly comfortable and the sailing experience/feedback is sublime. 
Stunning picture tt, shame I don’t have the right to live in that country anymore . 
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 12:18pm
Glad to hear the D-Zero is still good fun - totally agree about its versatility, and you're right, I forgot you sailed pursuits.  I guess slower boats getter better value for their money then???

I have thought several times about buying a DZ out here, but something always seems to take priority - plus there's no racing for them, which would probably feel a bit frustrating after a while.

As for your rights... they are what you make them, no one has been kicked out, but a few have decided to leave because they refused to pay taxes or declare their income, therefore can't live in the grey zone anymore.


Edited by turnturtle - 26 May 22 at 12:19pm
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NicolaJayne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by eric_c

 

What you really want for coaching is somebody who's a good enough sailor and who has some actual talent as a teacher. Another thread maybe.

 The best teacher is not  necessarily the best practitioner  

aso the best of the best   coaoching might be  beneficial to  squeeze that  last  hundredth  out of something  but when your progress  is is  to get from 60 %  into the 90s %   

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Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

 
A bit of both I reckon. I can certainly remember some "banter" that proved to be the final straw for some. 

and hence the reason at least one of the  more  voluminous and controversial  posters seems to be on  some kind of approval of their posts, to make sure they  aren't being   as overtly egregious  in their misogyny, homophobia and transphobia as they have been  in the past.
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 6:55pm
I see snobbery mentioned in a few posts recently relating to boats, construction methods, etc. I think that isn't the case so much these days but reading many posts on here it is still alive and kicking, except these days its aimed at the fleet racing/handicap racing systems. So damn what if all you've got is handicap racing, its still fun, its being out on the water, having a race around with your friends. The 'spreadsheet of pointlessness' is a particular disparaging remark Jimbo. I don't care theres a program there to work it out afterwards, I've enjoyed the sail (possibly). Gives me something to moan about PY bandits afterwards ;) 
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 10:46pm


I see your point - being out on the water chasing around with mates - sounds good, why not do it in not too dissimilar craft that you each prefer to sail if it's really not that serious- race them scratch, the way God intended.

Even the most ardent PY aficionado is NOT seriously suggesting a Musto Skiff vs an Oppy of similar skilled sailing are ‘really racing' in the conventional sense in one isolated race.  At best the PY system works on averages to score a series between these two ends of the spectrum... even then it requires local correction to suit water type and prevailing conditions to optimise it, which many committees are reluctant to do

So back to your evening out of competitive cruising, someone comes along to rank you afterwards to tell you how well you did in some arbitrary manner...

Probably best to ignore it, or as you say, just take the piss with some wry comments about banditry if the cookie crumbles badly at this point...  either way, it's a totally pointless exercise in the wider scheme of things.

At best it's a validation exercise to tell us who the better sailors are (like we don't know already?!?), at worst it just pisses people off telling them they actually sailed like a total gimp in comparison.

Given how many ex-sailors I know who say club handicap racing is just NOT of interest, I'd say there's a fundamental problem IF the sport wants to attract back some old blood...  personally I can't see why new blood would stick it out in the first place given the cost and time requirements, as reflected by an earlier post suggesting 10-20% max return from adult courses.



Edited by turnturtle - 26 May 22 at 11:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 22 at 11:15pm
Oh dear . TT, someone criticises your point of view , you get all defensive and you go back to your old ways of posting ream’s and reams of well argued tosh.
I really don’t know why you even bother with this little forum because you don’t seem to like the sport of sailing or sailing in general or clubs or sailors because we don’t all agree we you. 
It must be hard being a messiah that no body follows .  LOL. Me, I am happy being a very naughty boy.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 22 at 5:59am
I think a subtle distinction can be made between taking your hobby (dinghy racing/boat ownership) seriously and taking an individual race (whether PY or fleet) seriously. 

No one has to take every race seriously - you may prioritise the club regatta over the mid week series for example. Many people take the Bloody Mary seriously - just take a look at the names on the trophy. Many more do it because sailing in the depths of winter in a fleet of 150 boats has a perverse sense of worthiness. These people, who have no realistic prospect of winning, still pursue their hobby “seriously” (maybe that’s not quite the right word, maybe “keenly” or “with priority”) else they wouldn’t spend £12.5k on a secondhand 200 or spend a weekend freezing their tits off in a concrete bowl.

As for At best it's a validation exercise to tell us who the better sailors are (like we don't know already?!?), at worst it just pisses people off telling them they actually sailed like a total gimp in comparison. Isn’t that what fleet  racing is too?



Edited by A2Z - 27 May 22 at 6:02am
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