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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Do Different

All sound economic points Rupert.

I guess on a dinghy development thread some I thought people might be interested in pimping and fettling above resale values and sticking with the herd.

I wasn't thinking everyone would go out and order a brand new custom rig. There is always Ebay to trawl, broken stuff in the boat park and back yard ingenuity to explore.

Obviously horses for courses. Some by inclination, practical skills or available time will always prefer the "plug and play" option. 

However wouldn't it be nice (in my head anyway) if the Fred Dibnahs, Guy Martins and Scrap Heap Challenge enthusiasts had an arena to play in as well?



 




I've been putting dead boats back on the water for years, so yes, I'd love to see more of it happening, but as a racing scene is has the problem that if someone is willing to build from scratch with new rig, they will blow the rest away, and in order to compete, you'd have to do the same. Outside of racing, and awful lot of this goes an already round the place, with Lasers with tarp junk rigs, for instance, or the laser I read about which had had a foot of freeboard added. Or the Maser in the USA.

For the majority, as Jeffers says, it is easier and cheaper, and gets you an instant fleet to sail with, if you buy an old Laser. Messing about will always be a minority thing, sadly.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 9:31am
In lots of ways you are quite right Jeffers.

What sailing needs is not new boats at all but new people to get and sail the stacks of stuff that is (dead cheap and) already out there.

£300 Laser did me fine and survived sea sailing and £800 Contender with three sails and a spare old procter mast is best fun ever on a Saturday afternoon (anybody need a mast for the new formula class?). Even my first proper class racing two man, three sail single wire boat cost under £2000 and is still going strong. 
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 9:38am
The other option is that the industry gets a bit more commercial about it.  

20 years ago 'a new car' was a very aspirational thing for more families to own.  Thesedays it's common place for families to change cars every three years on rolling finance deals.... leasing.

I don't know why more boat builders (or the marketing companies who actually interface with consumers) don't offer leasing as an option.  

The cost of the boat would be less than £200 per month on a 36 month loan... and that's with a usury APR.  Add in some balloons and GFV then you're looking at sub £100 per month.  That's less than a Premiership season ticket.

When grown men are willing to spend upwards of 2k on a road bike, there's no reason why a decent sales job and finance package can't flog those interested with a new boat of circa £5k.  Our sports residual values are actually very good.
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iitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 10:08am
I have always been afflicted with the poverty of an ill educated man. In consequence I have learned to be a 'snapper up of other peoples un considered trifles'. This has mattered nothing to me (I would not do well irrespective of budget) but the 'boy' has not suffered from it either. Lightning 104 which has enjoyed considerable success cost £295 eleven years ago and his/our Byte cost £500 before it was totaled by vandals and replaced with a £1000 boat. My circumstances will never change but he has his own budget these days and has spent money on a house rather than expensive toys.

Cheap old boats are still out there and with tweaks and in certain classes they can still be capable of winning. Given the availability of these cheap boats there is little encouragement to self build new ones.

Mind you I do have that old Byte hull and some Tasar sails.....I could cobble up a mast and make some better foils....But it is warm in the kitchen looking out at the frost.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 10:24am
Dinghy Sailors have always been tightwads, pleading poverty, scrabbling around for bent coins, washers and loose change to buy a pulley then stepping outside into a current year model Audi, Beamer or Volvo to drive back to whichever leafy suburb whence they came. (I once worked behind the counter at Racing Sailboats when they were in Battersea park Rd)

Edited by iGRF - 22 Jan 14 at 10:26am
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 10:35am
Originally posted by yellowwelly

The other option is that the industry gets a bit more commercial about it.  

20 years ago 'a new car' was a very aspirational thing for more families to own.  Thesedays it's common place for families to change cars every three years on rolling finance deals.... leasing.

I don't know why more boat builders (or the marketing companies who actually interface with consumers) don't offer leasing as an option.  

The cost of the boat would be less than £200 per month on a 36 month loan... and that's with a usury APR.  Add in some balloons and GFV then you're looking at sub £100 per month.  That's less than a Premiership season ticket.

When grown men are willing to spend upwards of 2k on a road bike, there's no reason why a decent sales job and finance package can't flog those interested with a new boat of circa £5k.  Our sports residual values are actually very good.

Isn't that how they sell so many ugly rotomoulds at boat shows?
Lots of people smooth talked into buying a new rotobath, when a good used boat would have been better and cheaper in the long run.
I guess you need sales volume to be worth putting the finance schemes in place.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 10:37am
Originally posted by iGRF

Dinghy Sailors have always been tightwads, pleading poverty, scrabbling around for bent coins, washers and loose change to buy a pulley then stepping outside into a current year model Audi, Beamer or Volvo to drive back to whichever leafy suburb whence they came. (I once worked behind the counter at Racing Sailboats when they were in Battersea park Rd)


The beemer was a company motor, honest!
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Blue One View Drop Down
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Posts: 317 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Blue One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 11:56am
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by Rupert

Trouble is, the rig is now so expensive that putting one on a butchered £100 Laser would mean ending up with a boat worth considerably less than the rig cost in the 1st place, as you have a boat with no real re-sale value. Compare that to Yellow Welly and his Solo experience, where I expect the boat was sold for not TOO huge amount of depreciation - at least compared to putting new kit on old boats. And most sailors aren't that interested in the design and build side of things.

correct- the depreciation was in line with my own personal level of comfort.  

I could have probably got a bit more for it, but given the deck colour was always going to be a bit bi-polar I knocked £500 off the real asking price and sold it within 48 hours.  That small (by comparison) discount meant I could have sold it 5 times over... I even had someone willing to transfer me the funds and collect it later without even seeing it.  It sold to a very nice gentleman who sails National 12s.  


glad to hear, the solo has gone. i did wonder if the colour would put some people off, on the other hand it was a great quaility boat, rig and sail. it was so nice it nearly made me want one! LOL

james, on the same train of thought, if you ever buy a r50 or even a punk, can you put me down now for first refusal when you come to sell it.
and i am not joking, you always have great boats. Smile Smile

hope the big boat sailing is going well.

ps where is the purple perils new home?




Edited by Blue One - 22 Jan 14 at 12:04pm
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Thunder Road View Drop Down
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Posts: 372 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 11:57am
Originally posted by iGRF

Dinghy Sailors have always been tightwads, pleading poverty, scrabbling around for bent coins, washers and loose change to buy a pulley then stepping outside into a current year model Audi, Beamer or Volvo to drive back to whichever leafy suburb whence they came. (I once worked behind the counter at Racing Sailboats when they were in Battersea park Rd)
They probably have a brandy and Babycham habit to feed
Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 14 at 12:04pm
Topper started doing the boat finance in the 90's, with disasterous results - they went bust. I think maybe others have been a little shy of pushing it too much since then, though I'm sure RS have a scheme in place, it doesn't dominate the sales and marketing.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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