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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 May 10 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Neptune

What's the chatter with the 400 getting a new
rig...surely
they are still selling enough not to bother revamping it
without alienating a whole pile of boat owners?


Why is that always the assumption?

Oh don't make it better you'll annoy the boat owners.

How about the boat owners who'd maybe like an upgrade path?

How about securing the future making a great boat better?

Typical class luddite attitude.

They should scrap it and build an entire new one, all carbon, twice the
price.

Then listen to them whine.

Oh and use the same handicap and make them all race together and you
only get to win if you can afford a new boat - like the Phantoms..


Edited by G.R.F.
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 10:49am
Originally posted by G.R.F.



They should scrap it and build an entire new one, all
carbon, twice the
price.

Then listen to them whine.

Oh and use the same handicap and make them all race
together and you
only get to win if you can afford a new boat - like the
Phantoms..


Sounds like a Merlin Rocket then!

If you are going to change rig then you are going to make
handling/ speed different - hopefully improved, otherwise
what's the point.

If you are going to go to that trouble why not as you say
design a whole new platform as well? Its not like the
class needs reviving, its pretty healthy I expect because
people like the fact that boats are all the same.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 10:52am
I started a new thread neppy, give a chance for a real discussion..

Edited by G.R.F.
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Dan Vincent

Classes which have switched to carbon, have produced extremely expensive masts (Around £2500 ex VAT for an off the shelf Finn Mast (I bet you would pay more for a custom effort) ref...

http://www.suntouched.co.uk/suntouched_sailboats2b_005.htm

Excuse my ignorance, but in that link there are multiple references to "Pussy Pads".  What are they?  (not something I want to Google really).

 
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 11:15am
I think they are those cushion things that Finn sailors
like on the side deck to make it more comfortable when
going up wind...
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 11:25am
They fill the gaps and spread the loads around the knee when ankle-dangling.
Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 11:39am
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by RS400atC

GRF the normal laquer to use is International
Perfection 2 pack varnish. It has among the best UV blocking for a clear
coating. If you get a couple of syringes (ebay), you can mix small quantities
properly and the £30 tin will do a lot of masts. Less than half a tin did 3
coats on an RS600 mast.


Cheers.



Thanks for that, how often does this stuff usually need to be applied?

Is it an annual affair, or every couple of years?

Ideally, a light sand and one coat every year.

Or when it starts peeling around the knocks, it needs scraping and at least three coats.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 11:48am
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by RS400atC

[And rampant corrosion in the middle?


I think the Bethwaite boats have been through this, some of them
using glass top sections to get a lot of flex on a rigidly rigged (but
curved) metal bottom section.


Replacement cost woud not be any cheaper, SMOD retailers would
charge what they could get away with.



Well I did wonder, great minds obviously think alike..

But yes, the alloy corrosion would always be an issue ever present.

But then you get that with all alloy masts surely, you are just probably not
as aware of it.

Half and half would be just a cost priced compromise.

Carbon will always be superior.

Carbon in contact with ali can give serious electrolytic corrosion, as bad as mixing brass with ali. Either material is happy in seawater on its own, but put the two together and you can have serious problems. I presume a barrier layer of glass epoxy would work, but where rivets etc go through there are often problems. I've just had to fix some horrible problems on carbon poles with alloy inserts to take the pole ends, so it's very real not just theory. It's the reason RS600 mast's don't come apart unless you keep the alloy sleeve in the stump well greased!

Other metals also destroy ali, stainless fittings should be put on with a hideous yellow gunge called duralac filling the interface to stop the corrosion.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Dan Vincent

So unless tightly controlled (as in a SMOD such as... D1, Musto, RS800) expect change to carbon masts to be accompanied by costs not just increasing but multiplying.

Can you point to a non-Olympic class where that's happened?
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 10 at 12:19pm

A Chipstow mast for a Merlin looks to £1350 probably plus VAT. All fitted.

I think superspars are a bit cheaper.

So maybe double the price of ali.

but not a big percentage of the cost of a new boat.

According to a cat sailing friend, the scariest prices are for low-tech SMOD catamaran masts. Definitely what the market will bear rather than cost plus!
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