Cirrus Icon Development

Originally posted by laser4000 Cough 59er Cough...

ahem ... Tasar?

 

Rick is more right there maybe - The Tasar was an earlier SMOD derivative of the NS14 from way back and its heritage is well known.   59er  .. can't see that myself unless you are saying the 59er (hull) was another near relative but the rig is way way off - different target owners as well - marketed as it was as the one for  'tired old' skiffers !!  (possibly the kiss of death in positioning  terms despite the obvious virtues of the boat itself) The evolution of the NS (and MG) development classes has led to some very capable hull forms in Oz in much the same way as the Merlin has found itself with a now largely stable and optimised hull shape this side of the world.  You can't improve some things very far once near optimum has been found.... so it is very natural to harness the experience of others and time.

Rigs (and maybe foils) - now there is much more room for a few tweaks there Slippery ... if you let your imagination loose beyond the NS limitations.  You will have to come along to the show for a peek ....
       
Mike L.

Rick

I love the Tasar, have owned several and raced them for several seasons while offspring were happy to be crew.   Don't think I/we would make the ideal weight by a country mile now !   Might be amazing to those who know me but in pre-history I even used to crew an N12 as well but we are not targetting them either.  Icon will share much of the NS heritage and refinement like the Tasar but things have moved on massively in the last 35 years.  Imagine N12s or Merlins from the mid-70's - very different beasts to today.  We also want self-draining cockpits, a hull form that works equally well in the light stuff we get a lot of the time here in Europe as well as one that flies in real wind and a package that can comfortably carry a typcial club crew of todays weight.

The Tasar did not exactly split the NS class - and Icon with its very different sailplan will not divide any other class either.  All we did was start with a very developed platform and go in a different direction.  Blaze/Halo has a very different sailplan of course to the Int.14 hull shape that produced that platform - good hull shapes are simply good hull shapes.  Dinghy sailors seem to get very excited about hulls as if it was the only key factor  - I learnt that the rig /foils are at least as important if the hull form and weight is at all reasonable from a diversion into board racing about 20 years ago.  Hulls can be pretty and people drool over them but it is the foils and rig that should really get more of the credit.      

No we are not 'targetting' the Tasar - unfortunately due to botched marketing way back it never got the success in Europe it so clearly deserved.  To be sucessful today we have to interest those currently sailing a much wider range of boats.  This group includes those making those first tentative steps up from recreational sailing to club racing and more.  Icon will be accesible to them as well as to us racing anoraks.  Make it fast, make it easy to sail, make it work in all winds and on typical club courses and above all make it fun is the directive.  

It is not impossible for us to keep the hulls 'NS compliant'.  Note we are building in epoxy, aim to be lighter and will be making some layout changes.  However if we can keep compliant without compromising what we are trying to do in some way we will do so - it all depends on what the prospective customers want now.    As you know we are developing a different sailpan and are looking at the whole issue of foils and how that might affect the hull.  Rig and foils - up to potential owners now but we will offer them several choices that they can try - my preference is simplicity and 2-sail though but you have to develop what people really want.  That programme is running now and an early (2-sail) version may be shown at the Dinghy Show.  The NS (or MG) has no foothold in Europe and to keep costs very affordable we will therefore be fixing hull form whatever sailplan is involved and definately going down the SMOD route.  

Mike L.

PS - no more for a bit now  .... keyboard stuff will not get things done ! 

Jim as our resident German member have you come across the
Flight 4.3? Guess it will have been quite well developed
by Andrew Landenberger, but as with the 59er, great boats
do not always turn into great classes.

Working solely on what I've read here it looks like this
Icon thing will be a direct and exact (? ) copy.

Lovely looking hull, but I don't understand the target market.

Two sail racing needs to be class based imho. In the average handicap fleet, this boat will do very well upwind then be lost downwind against boats with kites.

If it's going to sprout a kite, let's say so from the start.

If you're a serious racer, you'll want some sort of level racing, so it becomes the old 'critical mass' scenario. I'd love to race one, but only if half a dozen others were in my club to race against.

And the dagger board is a serious minus. So many of us sail where running aground happens. I get annoyed when I take the filler off the tip of my RS400 plate. I once crewed an RS800 and we did £800 worth of damage running aground upwind. For that I can live with new slot tapes every 2 years, and as it's raced one design, I'll live with inability to sail with a partly raised daggerboard.

What would I like to see in a new class?

Something like an RS400 or Merlin, built to a very high quality but light weight.

Let's say no more than 50kg for a robust hull that will be competitive after 20 years of club sailing.

Trouble is, when boats get that light you start to need weight equalisation to keep the racing reasonably level...