Just for you, Grumpf

Originally posted by timnoyce I think that we need to agree on some basic ground rules... length, beam, sail area etc. and then start a new class. A PROPER open development class.

Good Idea sort of TASA revisted for single handers? Or a single handed
cherub thingy but with sensible hull length so a good sea boat can result?

I'd like it to be along the lines that we enjoyed in the windsurfing days, a
sort of open manufacturers production class to fall within certain
parameters, that way a degree of commercial benefit could be accorded
to the local boat building Industry, a sort of Class association for the likes
of Vandercraft, Rondar Ovington build types of a certain 'style' that way
maybe there would be enough volume and we wouldn't have to wait
forever to get one.

Call it a 39 er




Edited by G.R.F.

It wasn't the power of the MPS, it was the fixed nature of the daggerboard
and blade rudder, that frequently jammed getting on and off the beach in
a shore dump.

The full batten sail permits a degree of 'feathering' in a breeze (although
the head backs a lot) so on the trapeze I could handle a fairish breeze,
top end of a four I seem to recall provided it came from the East not the
West, and downwind I had no problems.

But they wont have it, my credibility in the yottie world is worthless to
even complain, but to me the damn layout is all wrong, relation of the
mast position to the Centreboard etc, well it is for my weight anyway, so
it was forever going into irons tacking and no raking back of the
centreboad to bring the C of E ahead of the C of R. Their only answer is
massive forward rig tension which does keep the head of the sail forward,
but when the winds blowing and the sail flogs and everything moves aft,
try as I may I couldn't overcome the "Irons" issue and gave it up as a bad
job and am convinced to this day it's the work of a mad man, (just like
the D1 funnily enough).

And anyway, we have a saying about 'Technical' being a euphemism for
Canine, it's fun, it's your hobby you have precious few hours available,
you shouldn't have to spend hours 'practising' just to be able to 'do' it
differently for a different product let the pseudo 'pros' preen themselves
in thinking there's an inevitable end result in overcoming 'technical'
things, there isn't, if nobody with a disposable income acquired through
honest 9 til 5 labour can use it, it has no future, move on design
something better...

And that eventually is what I'll achieve.. Watch me, it's early days yet and
I'm just getting in to this thing.

May have been said before but the combo of prodigious pace and complete user friendliness has been examined by Bethwaite Snr and Jnr in High performance sailing with the HSP (High Speed Project) boats. Not saying that where they ended up was necessarily optimal, but bear in mind these are 2 very bright guys, loads of experience, resource and knowledge who went through 20 + prototypes with completely blank sheets, tried all kind of platforms and rigs.

Never saw pics of the final s/h HSP but it sounded pretty cool, the photos of the final 2 hander looked like a narrow b14 but a bit longer and with seaplane style outriggers, funny how these things often converge to the same solution.

I guess the s/h one may not be "english channel" enough in concept, but was supposed to be quick enough to get away without a kite, moth or formula stylee, but accessable enough to sail for a fella who no spring chicken even back then.

Originally posted by Daniel Holman May have been said before but the combo of prodigious pace and complete user friendliness has been examined by Bethwaite Snr and Jnr in High performance sailing with the HSP (High Speed Project) boats. Not saying that where they ended up was necessarily optimal, but bear in mind these are 2 very bright guys, loads of experience, resource and knowledge who went through 20 + prototypes with completely blank sheets, tried all kind of platforms and rigs. Never saw pics of the final s/h HSP but it sounded pretty cool, the photos of the final 2 hander looked like a narrow b14 but a bit longer and with seaplane style outriggers, funny how these things often converge to the same solution. I guess the s/h one may not be "english channel" enough in concept, but was supposed to be quick enough to get away without a kite, moth or formula stylee, but accessable enough to sail for a fella who no spring chicken even back then.

Mmmmmm, the HSP. I only sailed the last pre-production prototype one
day in a classic sea breeze many years ago, but I still remember it as a
brilliant boat.

Without dragging out dimensions, and adding 20+ years of confusion, I'd
hazard a guess that the 1up form would be very competitive with a light
F16 without kite in many conditions; probably competitive with a Formula
board downwind and upwind in a breeze, and of course a Formula board
would not be close to the first mark by the time an HSP finished two or
three laps in light stuff. At a very, very, very vague guess I'd expect the
HSP to do an F16 upwind in light stuff but downwind the kite of the F16 is
a huge advantage (ask Gashby about how the little under-rigged 1970s
Mossies crunch the A Class downwind in light stuff in F16 form!!!!!).

I've never sailed the Channel, but Sydney Heads is not particularly
smooth. Once off the beach, the HSP, with its bouncy effect on the lee
float, could (IMHO and faded memories) handle some serious chop
upwind and (with a bit of throttling back) downwind.

Think the ideal Canoe, multiply it, and that's the HSP. But it was NOT
user-friendly ashore or in inexperienced hands.





Edited by Chris 249

Originally posted by G.R.F. But light enough so I can launch and recover it myself, all up less than 50 kgs out.

I think you're going to struggle there. The lightest full carbon Cherub at 12 foot weighs in at about 40kg, fitted, with no rigging. So add to that your centreboard, rig, sails etc and extra 2 foot of hull its going to be at least 60kg I would have thought.