Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Alto - Why? |
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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No, I was there for an ISO open.
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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You seem to be argueing against yourself here- preaching "progress" whilst praising a feature of "old fashioned" boats. Surely the "progress" in pole systems from symmetric to assymetric has been to make them simpler to use- not more complex. As I say, if the pole can be retracted whilst locked central, then that's OK- it would in fact be progress. |
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As far as I can see you can pretty much lock the pole at any angle you choose to set it. And it will move in and out freely, obviously you are constrained by the sides of the bow as to how far you can retract it (Why would you do that anyway?)and you really would need to get it pretty centred to fully retract. But I can imagine in the heat of a breezy race it coming down scewed more often than exactly dead centre. |
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Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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That upwind sail plan looks pretty big - I hope you have a BIG crew ... 100kg plus.
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boatshed ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 457 |
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Its about the same as a 59er which has no trapeze. The 59er kite is about 50% bigger as well. I doubt if it will eat B14s for breakfast as suggested in this thread. I'd even be surprised if it was quicker than a 59er . I predict the Alto will stuggle to grow. |
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Steve
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.......no, it's about having a kite thats versatile. after spending quite a while getting the hang of it (it was a struggle), we now appreciate the benefits. I am fortunate in that I've got the same crew for life. Most helms get through crew at an alarming rate (usually because they shout at them) so they never have time to get to grips with a symmetric. The assy wins on that basis. I wish you luck with the new boat, it looks pretty good. I await with interest future progress reports
Edited by GK.LaserII |
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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I reckon it'll be able to beat B14s on the water in light winds- but as soon as the B is able to plane upwind (depends upon crew weight, but around 7-11 knots wind speed) it'll be left for dust.
What would be interesting is to see how it stacks up against 5ohs. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I think it will struggle, too, not because it is a bad boat (i have no clue either way) but because marketing muscle sells boats these days. Personally, I think the bowsprit is a great idea for confined waters and tricky bits. Very few of the asymmetric boats can even beat our Firefly down a short dead run on a small lake unless it is very windy, as the distance sailed is just too great compared to the gains. Whether it can be better than a well used conventional kite (like say on a 470...) on the sea, I'm sure GRF will let us know in his own inimitable way later in the season... |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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The experience from the 4000s and 400s is that they tend to have their pole centered when flying the kite in decent breezes- especially when you start getting appreiciable apparent wind sailing. In those conditions, the controls for tilting the pole become nothing more than an extra thing to worry about during hoists and drops, as they have to be pulled on when hoisting and released when dropping. Progress would be a system that had the moveable pole, but allowed (in breeze) you to raise and drop the kite without touching those controls. Does the Alto allow this? |
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Iain C ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1113 |
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Hmmm, not convinced I'm afraid. I can see that it does have a market and in many ways it's nicer to see an existing hull being developed than yet another brand new design coming out, but to me it just seems that it will have a very short future and I have questions about the hull development. I say "short future" because if it was really much good then in 50 years of 5o5 development and 20 years of asymmetric sailing you would have though someone would have had that "lightbulb moment" and combined the two. And I say "tight budget" because from a marketing perspective it looks to have had a pretty serious redesign and I think it may have been better to keep it under wraps or keeping it un-named. To sail it round as a slightly modded 5o5 for a few years under the Alto name and then for the thing to come back out with a different transom, chines, stem etc would worry me...what else is planned in these days of one designs changing so much? (49er rig/hull, RS800 deck, Mirror rig, Laser controls, Graduate sailplan to name but a few, including of course 5o5 kites!) I'm most definitely no pre-pubescent but I do sail a boat with a red heart on the sail (when I finish building it) but also a Fireball, and they did try the whole asymm thing on a ball, and it was quicker, but it just flopped, and that boat was converted back... But most of all I want to go up to an Alto and say "you poor, poor thing, you could have been a proper 5o5 with a flyaway pole and an monster kite..." I'm not knocking it too much and I wish you the best of luck and TBH reading previous posts I think it will probably be a great boat for your requirements, however I don't really get the design breif of "take a 5o5 hull, put a bigger kite on it and design it so it can go dead downwind too and hope the class takes off", it's the same as "take a used 505 with the big kite on which already goes dead downwind beautifully and sails similar courses to asymms, spend a day learning to gybe it with it's very efficient flyaway pole system, join a class with over 50 years of heritage, and probably get you money back when you sell it..." |
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RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
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