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Which Skiff....

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which Skiff....
    Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 12:42pm

Originally posted by Phil eltringham

Skiff enthusiast as I am, I have to side with the cat guys on this one something like a Taipan or a Dart 15 would be far better at leat for the first season or two.  Will get your son used to the speed/spray/competition and will be less likely to capsize and be more comfortable.   

Wot's all this tosh about getting used to speed and not capsizing? when I was 7 I sailed a Topper and thought it was pretty boring unless it was F6+ I was much happier in me Dads Laser and I spent most of my time in the Topper trying to capsize in interesting ways!

Also IMHO you learn much more/quicker in a dinghy than a cat. Everything always seems so remote in a cat, sure the speed is fun but even Jetskiiers get bored - eventually.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 1:59pm

Yawn.

Matt it is different. 

Yes Cats are easy to sail badly

There are a different set of skills.  As cats are more stable in heel, balancing the boat becomes easier (but still critical) and so other areas can have more focus - sail (and fore aft) trim for example, it is possible for the crew to have the mainsail (a la 49er and other skiffs) but the helm will be playing with mast rotation/downhaul and traveller as they are spending less time trying to stay on the boat and so can do other things.

Also going so fast needs more time with your head out of the boat to check whats around you.  I could go on and on and on...  But I wont.

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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 4:23pm
Yeh iprefer the the chaotic boat on boat in fleets of small singlehanders that are otherwise pretty bland. eg:topper, opppie , laser. In an ideal world you'd have a fast cat and skiff to mess about in as well!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 4:50pm

Matt, my reason for suggesting a cat is that Blobby's son is only seven and putting the lad in a skiff at that age with no experience is a bit to much of a jump (IMHO) otherwise I would agree with you entirely!!  

Cats make people lazy in terms of balance (having said that cat sailors in skiffs is possibly the funniest thing you will ever see so maybe they have their uses). 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 5:05pm

OK. Maybe not a skiff.

But what I said still hold true about kids and fear (ie they have none) whenever I've been involved in any kind of training it's always the windiest days the kids love and when it's quieter you can't get them to keep the boats upright!

It's always the high performance end of sports that captures the imagination, like wanting a Ducati and starting out with 50cc hairdryer, or wanting a Porsche but driving a Nova.

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 5:13pm

Originally posted by Harry44981!

Yeh iprefer the the chaotic boat on boat in fleets of small singlehanders that are otherwise pretty bland. eg:topper, opppie , laser. In an ideal world you'd have a fast cat and skiff to mess about in as well!

You're spot on, some of the best racing is in the slowest boats - look at the size of Enterprise fleets. I don't think many people sail them 'for the buzz'.

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Blobby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 8:32am

Being 7 doesn't necessarily mean no experience...my boy and I have been sailing together for a couple of years and he is now confident (and competent) enough to helm a 420 in a force 2 - 3.  Haven't done any capsize practice yet, but we probably should to see how he copes - if he enjoys it then a skiff type boat is probably OK, but if not we'll stick with a more stable beast. 

My main aim in going down the skiff line is to get a boat that I can sail from the wire - (my back is far from perfect and sailing a Contender for a couple of years ruined my desire to return to a hiking boat for life...) - and the newer skiff type designs are much easier to transition to and from the and move around in than a 420 (which to be honest I find an ergonomic nightmare!)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 12:24pm

Are you sure about the transition thing? I find lighter wind stuff (when you come in and out on the wire a lot) quite tiring and gives me backache because the Contender has a raised cockpit and you almost lie rather than sit in it. That's one reason Hornets have moved away from crewdecks towards full depth cockpits. It's different for boats you don't spend much time on the deck (like some skiffs I guess) but I would have thought a 420 was easier (if more cramped!). What I'm saying is the rule isn't true for all Skiffs.

My solution would be to buy a Contender each

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 12:57pm
Blobby, didn't realise your son's level of experience.  In that case you could probably manage a 29er if you take it easy to start with, it is a steep learning curve.  Its a little twitchy but the loads are comparitively very light and it is one of the easiest boats to trapeeze off ever, really comfy (kick bars are great), best bet is to speak to Dave Hall at Ovi's and have a demo. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 04 at 1:01pm
Bearing in mind geography and the desire to build a fleet I think AUS rules Cherubs have to be a pretty good call for you.

- locally even home buildable or import from AUS/NZ
- no materials/supplier restrictions so you can use what suppliers you like.
- moderate size rig and small light hull keeps the cost down
- no worries about design ownership/royalyies and the like except on the hull shape.

you don't even need to be concerned about not being one design because the AUS rules space is very stable and the boats have hardly changed shape in years. You could always agree to build to a single hull shape for now anyway.
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