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    Posted: 19 Apr 07 at 9:19am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Guest#260

What is the point of a trials with no races - are they afraid of what they may find out.


You could make a very good case to say that the relative rate at which a boat circulates a course is perhaps the least important thing to discover from the trials. So I'd certainly say that race *results* are irrelevant to the choice. I would think how the sailors find the boats handle in race conditions is important though.

Agreed - but this is a high-performance trial; why not determine which boat has the highest performance?

I am not saying they should choose the fastest boat but at least establish which one is the fastest ... why not?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 07 at 10:02am
By all accounts from what I've read, they are taking GPS devices out on the boats, well the GT60 and Daemon have been anyway. I also don't see why they haven't raced the boats off against each other? I'm starting to wonder what are they doing at the event, simply sailing the boats in what could be deemed to be light conditions and making an assessment on that basis? I'd hedge my bets on the I14 being the quickest boat at the event, but reckon it's a close run thing between the rest of the twin stringers. Taking that in to account, I'd accept that the 14 should be at the front and 29er near the back and start making assessments on the 29erXX, Daemon and GT60 through racing to seperate the differences between them. There is another point that it can be quite easy to "nail" manouveres in your own time, but doing it under pressure in a racing environment can be a completely different situation. They have no control of the weather at the event, but isn't anyone else slightly alarmed that they are assessing high performance boats in light conditions so far? Every high performance boat I've sailed has been relatively well mannered and delightful to sail in those conditions, but it's very misleading to judge a boat on light wind conditions. Instead of just having an assessment event, I'd tend towards supporting a running assessment of the boats over a season, giving each unbiased sailor at the event, (if there are any there) the oppurtunity to sail one of the classes over a season and feedback to the ISAF their experiences with the craft such as how it performs over a very wide spectrum of conditions and wear and tear factors of each design.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 07 at 1:42pm

The ISAF criteria for the boats being evaluated seemed to focus as much on the tight control of one design status, consistancy and quality of manufacturing and worldwide availability as it did the sailling performance of the boats in question.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are greater differences between the boats in these logistical respects than there are 'on the water' differences, especially when comparing the more established classes to a new prototype like the GT60.

 

All the boats at the evaluation event have already met the intial criteria for sailing performance, i'd bet that ISAF will be more concerned now with production and availablity issues than how the boats perform in Hyeres.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote BigFatStan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 07 at 1:45pm
Yeah, what Nick said.

Also, only men think that a pissing contest is a good idea... they are looking for a women's boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Chiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 1:52pm

Believe me there were speed trials in Hyeres - We know because we watched most of them - and got to sail in some of them ourselves.

If you are interested, we've put up a sort of blog of the build, it's linked straight from the homepage of www.carbonology.com

- and of course if you have any questions, just ask!

Dave Chiz

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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 10:01pm
Talking to Katie nurton on sunday (owner and builer of the Black B5). She said the ladies wanted something between the 14 and the cherub. Katie actually said (without any prompting!) that the girlies thought the cherub was too girlie  .
I had to laugh but they said the 8 was too boring the 29er too underpowered. The xx was just poor compared to the others, and the two cherubs were really nice but im glad to say the 14 was their favourite
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 11:36pm
What was wrong with the 29erXX? I'm not surprised it's not that good, just interested in the thinking.

It's a pity if it doesn't work - I was hoping that teens moving out of youth classes could get a new rig and move into the XX at a time when many drop out of sailing, partly because they are faced with buying their own adult's boat.

About the lack of races - sure speed is only one (fairly insignificant) ingredient in the mix. But it's also about openness and accountability. And the losers will make up myths about the trials (like they did in the past) so why doesn't our governing body get facts to give us, their constituents?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote simsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 07 at 11:41pm

Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull

Talking to Katie nurton on sunday (owner and builer of the Black B5). She said the ladies wanted something between the 14 and the cherub. Katie actually said (without any prompting!) that the girlies thought the cherub was too girlie  .
I had to laugh but they said the 8 was too boring the 29er too underpowered. The xx was just poor compared to the others, and the two cherubs were really nice but im glad to say the 14 was their favourite

I look forward to the day you post something that isn't bias towards a 14 in anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 07 at 12:42am
Originally posted by simsy

Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull

Talking to Katie nurton on sunday (owner and builer of the Black B5). She said the ladies wanted something between the 14 and the cherub. Katie actually said (without any prompting!) that the girlies thought the cherub was too girlie  .
I had to laugh but they said the 8 was too boring the 29er too underpowered. The xx was just poor compared to the others, and the two cherubs were really nice but im glad to say the 14 was their favourite

I look forward to the day you post something that isn't bias towards a 14 in anyway.

Ahhh give the boy a break.. He's young, happy albeit slightly overexuberant at times.... He'll grow out of it   

 

 

 

and let's not complain or he'll rally round a few fellow 14-worshippers and give the Heart crowd a run for their money!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 07 at 7:38am

Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull

Talking to Katie nurton on sunday (owner and builer of the Black B5). She said the ladies wanted something between the 14 and the cherub.

Sounds like that SK4 may have been popular at the trials.

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