Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
No race officer sailing |
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Bandin ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 Feb 20 Location: Bodmin Online Status: Offline Posts: 22 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 22 Dec 20 at 9:13am |
Regardless of the tracking method you use, the logistics of using an 'automated' system for regular club racing just doesnt make it worthwhile. Even with fixed buoys/marks, the wind direction changes, the startline changes, the course changes, the entries change constantly as another participant comes screeching into the car park at the last minute. Someone has to sit there and input the data. Sort the trackers etc I did this for three years for SAP and it was a pain for small local events. Excluding the ability to playback the racing afterwards and for post race analysis, the old manual method is just far easier for small club racing and uses the same manpower as you're just replacing the OD with a computer operator.
Edited by Bandin - 22 Dec 20 at 9:14am |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Pretty sure more people enjoy being a race officer compared to being a data inputter.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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423zero ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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How many clubs have members who would all be happy with electronic systems? I know majority of my club members would prefer flags, hooter and race watches, only electronics we use are a laptop to work out placings.
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Robert
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Sussex Lad ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jun 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 360 |
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Been using Elec system for at least the last 16yrs. Lights/ hooters, starts/finishes and positions done on a box of tricks. Having done it numerous times I'm in 2 minds about it being easier or more reliable than a pencil and paper. The electronic system needs backing up with pencil and paper for lap times anyway. We have had occasions when the RO didn't back up with hand written time sheets and the electronics system failed....disaster.
The only electronic aid that could be run from the beach or boat that I reckon works is DSRC . Quite reliable, it does everything once you've got the pick list sorted and will export to sailwave. It runs on an andoid phone and will do pursuit and line starts. Instant corrected time results. DSRC cons: Small screen (but manageable). Some screens difficult to see in sunshine. Need a waterproof phone if run from a small boat. Although the app hoots and shows which flag to wave this does need supplementing with the real thing, so although one person could do it if only sound signals needed, two would be easier if you want flags as well. The app is a freebee so it's worth trying out at home during the long winter months. Edited by Sussex Lad - 22 Dec 20 at 2:12pm |
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simon hiscocks ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
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Hi, There is an app that does this!
Its called beat racing, I have been involved with its development so I know a little about it and the challenges that automatic race management present. Interestingly most have been covered by various posts already. When we started developing this app, it had a number of aims, one of which was to be able to go out with your mates, who may or may not have the same boat as you and make a race. It wasn't easy, and to be honest it still isn't all that easy but the devlopment continues and it gets easier all the time. I think Simon Lovesey touched already on the differences between phones and gps accuracy and with this in mind it should not be taken too seriously, rounding results to the nearest 10 seconds might not be too far from a fair conclusion. That said with the Beat app it is entirely possible to race differn't classes and get a result with no race officer and no need to have pre set marks or pre set a course, it is all edited in after the race. - Its not magic but it does take a lot development work in the background. The app is free and available on both the app and play store. It does a lot more than just create races so it is worth a look. Search for Beat Racing on the stores or the website is https://beat-racing.co.uk/ Edited by simon hiscocks - 22 Dec 20 at 10:53pm |
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www.shocksailing.com
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simon hiscocks ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
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Search for beat racing on the app stores
https://beat-racing.co.uk/
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www.shocksailing.com
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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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Re; accuracy with different devices. Could there be an in built function on an app where, pre race, you go to a designated refererence point (marker bouy) and 'ping' it to zero calibrate?
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Simon Lovesey ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 349 |
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This is a good idea, but I am not sure it would address the real issue of inconsistency in mobile phone GPS accuracy. This year I have managed to test numerous different phones (IOS and Android) as GPS trackers from various manufacturers, across a variety of Apps and seen significant differences in accuracy even for the same phone. Firstly the GPS installation will vary according to phone design, with things like aerial and case design playing significant roles on the physical front. Secondly, GPS is very power hungry and the higher the accuracy the greater the battery drain. The phone's software will try and compensate, and perhaps allocate power across a wide range of applications, which may explain the differences in accuracy for the same phone over time. Thirdly, phones use a variety of methods to work out location, again to save battery A phone can be used as a GPS tracker and for casual usage is fine, BUT a phone is designed to do many different functions, so will always be a compromise. For those who want to get the most out of tracking a dedicated GPS tracker is the way to go, with many units costing less than a phone. It is interesting to see how many people use a dedicated tracker (eg Garmin) with Strava Edited by Simon Lovesey - 23 Dec 20 at 9:00am |
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www.sailracer.org
Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management |
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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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Ah, yes Simon, a dedicated GPS device would avoid a lot of that.
I completely lost site of the fact that I have a Garmin on my bike! Small, light, cheap, water resistant (proof?). Whilst most may not give a long range transmission (for real time tracking). The sailors would be able to transfer recorded data for submission to race team... When my son was racing cyclo-cross last season, all the competitors were provided with an electronic tag by the organisers, which recorded lap/split times at finish/designated points. |
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polc1410 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 147 |
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Simon's sailing differs from big standard club racinga in my opinion.
£50 per year... ...how many clubs can afford to increaw membership fees £50. Yes technically they don't need one per member. There are clubs where that's 50% of membership fee. Where the boats being sailed cost £500. Others where is might cost that for a weekend membership and every sailor has spent that on a new block or rope in the hope of getting the edge on the line. I've used Strava for non-sailing stuff. Strava, has a number of advantages: - I can use any phone or a watch - it's more for training than competing - I can start with my phone and upgrade later to a watch. But while a watch is "dedicated" it isn't just tracking. It is a watch. It is giving me pace, distance, time. Strava doesn't need 0.1second resolution. 100m with 10 second resolution will be fine. Lap time tags - user a RFID pad rather than GPS. I.e. you run or cycle over a sensor. Doesn't work for boats. GPS was never designed to give accuracy of 3m or less... There are ways to do it to 0.1m but not. In a disposable device. |
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