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Phat Bouy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Jan 06 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Phat Bouy

If there is a boat on the Pin End who informs the RO what boats are/aren't over the line then they MUST be anchored otherwise you can protest them if you are called.

Care to quote a rule number or ISAF case that actually says that? I don't think you can but I'm prepared to be corrected.



Quite correct there are no Rule numbers or ISAF cases that actually say that but this what an International Judge has to say, and  I quote:
"There is no ruling on the matter. The problem is when it comes to a protest the boat will make the argument that because it was not anchored it could not be certain that it was looking down the actual line and therefore it's evidence is not reliable. Some protest committees can be bullied and if there is doubt the doubt is resolved in favour of the competitor. If the boats are over for a long time prior to the start it is probably not possible for the helm to hold position. However, it all depends on who is more convincing to the protest committee."
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Strawberry View Drop Down
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Posts: 1337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Strawberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 06 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by jpbuzz591

Calum how do forum members become part of the forum underworld?

I would tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.....

We will let you know when your ready, it's a need to know basis.
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 06 at 6:57am

Originally posted by Phat Bouy

 However, it all depends on who is more convincing to the protest committee."

Precisely. The spotter boat does not have to be anchored but it is more likely to convince a protest committee if it is. Your original post suggested that they had to be anchored (no ifs or buts), whereas the IJ is saying it is better if they are, which nobody would dispute.  
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 06 at 7:03am

Originally posted by Calum_Reid

A certain club on the forth dont even anchor there commite boat for the start they have to marks which the start is between and then they motor the commitee boat onto the line at the last second.

I can think of at least two very well known south coast clubs who have been known to start races this way in conditions when they found it hard to anchor but RRS 27.2 makes it illegal.



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 06 at 8:06am
Well if it was a case of a slightly 'iffy' start or a cancelled race I'd go for the iffy start every time. However if I was reported OCS by a non-stationary spotter I'd take my protest/appeal as far as possible (unless it was a clear cut case) because it's only by testing the (non)rules that changes are made.
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Phat Bouy View Drop Down
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Posts: 168 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 06 at 11:31am
I would still protest the Committee robustly if I was called by a non-anchored spotter boat wether or not and Rule or ISAF case supports it because of the RYA Racing Charter http://www.rya.org.uk/Racing/charter. Read the bit about the application of the charter where it say "to be provided with racing that, as far as is possible, is fair, enjoyable and safe".

What this all goes to show is that it really doesn't matter too much about the rules as there are ways of arguing yourself "out of jail". It really depends on how subtle a bully you can be and wether or not you can can argue sucessfully which supports the theory that "rules" are there for guidance and can be broken!
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Garry View Drop Down
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Posts: 536 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 06 at 1:37pm
Could I just point out that you cannot under any circumstances protest the race committee, pedantic I know, instead you request redress.
Garry

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 06 at 2:43pm

Originally posted by Garry

Could I just point out that you cannot under any circumstances protest the race committee, pedantic I know, instead you request redress.

I think everybody knows what we mean. What's the difference anyway? My understanding is that procedurally it's the same it's just that the race committee cannot be penalised.

Queue excess pedantry (I've made a list of those I think will argue this point and I'll let you all know how well did in a few hours )
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