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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Jul 18 at 11:21am
Originally posted by mozzy

Fireballs already have a swinging pole that works through a wide angle, far greater than any contraption mounted below the forestry... having a symmetric kite means they never need to gybe it. It's pulling non-stop from the moment it's set, to the moment it's dowsed. 

The symmetric is absolutely ideal for enclosed waters, and it's probably the reason the fireball has held a niche as a trapeze boat that can be sailed at tight venues. 

Putting an assy on a swinging sprit is counterproductive for obvious reasons. 

Plus, snowflake? A term once used as a put down to the easily offended youth, now reused by the elderly who find themselves low on wit and confronted with a counter views.  
 

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if the assy became standard first, and the symmetrical kite was developed later. One can think of many '90s ads speaking in breathless hype about the wonders of being able to sail directly to the leeward mark. Topper would have had huge headlines about how macho it was to handle a detachable pole, complete with heavily edited quotes about the joys of being able to sail tight reaches AND sneak out of the tide. Magazines would have been full of articles about the trendy new technique of sailing low, and sneers about those who insisted on reaching back and forth with assy kites.

Some of those of us whose first dinghy was an assy with a swivelling pole find the whole assy hype rather amusing. It's not that I don't like them, either - of our three kite boats, one has a sym, one has an assy that sometimes runs a swivelling pole, and the other has a standard assy. But the hypesters who ignore their downsides and denigrate sym kites are rather amusing.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 18 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Chris 249

One can think of many '90s ads speaking in breathless hype about the wonders of being able to sail directly to the leeward mark. 

Yes, I can picture it now.... a good solid F6 on a gloomy, lumpy Weymouth Bay day.... two blokes sailing together and looking suitably dishevelled and they take another face full of man the f**k up juice from the loins of Poseidon himself.  

None of that 'buy a Topper Buzz and even Brightlingsea will feel like Garda' tits n' teeth stuff I grew up on.  


Edited by turnturtle - 26 Jul 18 at 11:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 18 at 11:54am
Hype vs Reality a few years on:










Edited by turnturtle - 26 Jul 18 at 11:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 18 at 12:14pm
It's actually 20-odd years on. Plenty of classes of all genres get to bargain basement level in 20 years. The 4000 was actually a good boat. Particularly IMHO, compared to the 5000.
How much does a 1995 vintage, no upgrades GRP Fireball fetch?
OTOH, I've always regarded Fireballs as a fast boat. Because they were always out going very fast in lots of wind when the likes of Ents, Solos, Wayfarers were too much like hard work and sensible people were watching from the clubhouse.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 18 at 12:39pm
It's nothing to do with Hype, it's just easier access. A lot easier to take a complete new to sailing pal out and tell him to just pull on that one rope and up goes the kite and out goes the pole. Swinging it or not depends on the course and weather and controls to do that can be routed back to the helm. Anything that makes things more tricky reduces numbers, haven't we learned that yet or does the sport need to decline further?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 18 at 3:41pm
1995 fireball 2300 on apolloduck
1991 composite 1150 on apolloduck.

Sym. Kites GRF easy enough for a 7 year old to use and win with
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 18 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by iGRF

It's nothing to do with Hype, it's just easier access. A lot easier to take a complete new to sailing pal out and tell him to just pull on that one rope and up goes the kite and out goes the pole. .......

Anything that makes things more tricky reduces numbers, haven't we learned that yet or does the sport need to decline further?

^ This, easy access is definitely a big factor. I'm currently wrestling with what to do with the Spice. I love the boat, it makes me smile every time I sail it but I'm never going to get to it's potential, even with my 'regular' crew and the Spice's low (especially-for-a-twin-wire-boat) potential. So I'm wondering if it's time to move her on and buy a 400........
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 18 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Neal_g

1995 fireball 2300 on apolloduck
1991 composite 1150 on apolloduck.

Sym. Kites GRF easy enough for a 7 year old to use and win with


Abusing your own child into banditry is not a good example.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 18 at 6:29pm
Some interesting thoughts here and for once a quite sensible dialogue.... that issue of accessibility is something that was/is worth exploring. Just as Dinghy Mag expired, we were working on a project that would  see me sailing at the Merlin and RS 400 Championships with a 'new' crew - someone reasonably new to the sport but who was keen to get involved.

Back then we liked multi-part articles so this was going to come in 4 linked pieces; Preparation, the two events and a wrap up with conclusions. The Merlin, with the twin pole set up is probably easier than maybe the Fireball, which was still tied to a single pole set up.

Sadly, getting this sort of writing into print was hard then and is even harder now, yet it is just exactly where the media could play a role. But that inbreed, class specific tribalism that dominates current thinking works against any form of more informative writing.

But accessibility IS an issue - I saw a great example being played out at the weekend, a sailor out in the wrong boat because that was what he had been told was  the 'hot' class to be in....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 18 at 7:12pm
Well it is fact, with that Alto, I took a guy in his late forties maybe early fifties with absolutely no sailing experience whatsoever, and gave him a taste of the front of the fleet almost from the get go. You couldn't do that with poles and sym kites. A self ticking jib, single string assym kite and pole, with the swinging bit lead back to the helm, I could have used your grandmother..

Edited by iGRF - 27 Jul 18 at 7:13pm
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