Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 161752 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
PY Inland vs Sea |
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Null ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 11:21am |
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I dont get that. Some of the biggest races in the UK sailing calender are PY races. With arguably the biggest prizes on the table! I seem to remember Andy Smith winning £1000 at the tiger trophy a few years back! To say its just for fun kind of misses the point.99% of sailors in the UK do it just for fun, be it big fleet or handicap racing. Its always going to be a hobby for most. But suggesting PY racing shouldnt be taken seriously is paying a diservice to all of those sailors that travel hours in the cold to compete in the Bloody Mary.
I know for sure i would rather win the Bloody Mary or The Lord Birket than a small class Nationals. Like it or not PY racing is ever becoming a bigger part of our sport and something that i am glad is being taken more seriously. What i find utterly amazing is some of the guess work that's taken place by the GL numbers. I wont comment too much until the numbers are finalised and published. But i am aware that guess work and opinion has over ruled statistical data. I do however agree with the split fleet part. At the moment fast and slow boats mixed is always subject to the best boat for the conditions winning. Splitting by speed does help iron out some of the polarization.
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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This is where the Grafham GP has it about right.
Different courses for different types of boat (W/L for assys and Cats, a course with reaches for the rest) with fleet prizes I seem to recall as well as an overall prize. You can usually tell who is in with a shout for the overall prize looking at the weather on the day of the event!
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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I sometimes think that it would be good to treat every boat that has finished within say ten seconds of another to have tied with it. It would reflect that handicaps are an approximation, and all too often our recorded finishing times are too. Multiple ties would want a bit of work though. However every time I've dreamed up what I think is a superior system in the past, when I've applied it to real world results the actual change in series scores seems minimal. More ties might keep series alive for longer I suppose, but that's about it.
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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I don't get the arguments against it anymore....
We have people complaining about the guesswork involved in the Great Lakes, but then they are likely to bemoan the fact that their club, or club committee lack to the socio-political will to amend the numbers as per the RYA recommendation. Surely combining the stats, the accuracy factor and some good old fashioned, 'suck it and see' guesswork is all we can expect/hope for when it comes to someone offering a localised adjustment. Not that they'll get any thanks for it, upwards or down, it will be accused of being rigged by the discontent... |
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davidyacht ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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I would rather be in the top 10 at a big class Nationals than win one of the Big Winter Handicap events ... as a previous Grafham Grand Prix Winner. Then I think that every club should only accept members if they are prepared to sail the classes that the club races ... though I accept that this may be a minority view! The joy is not in the type of boat you sail, but in the quality of the boat on boat racing ... you can try and recreate this in PY but there will always be dissatisfaction. As an anecdote; We raced a Salcombe Yawl in Chichester Snowflake a few years ago with the official PY. Each week they knocked 1 minute off our handicap, until we stopped winning, I thought that this was quite a sensible and pragmatic approach and never complained, it made the racing more interesting and challenging. It is for the challenge that we go racing, isn't it?
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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I do not question that when any changes are applied to PY over a series of results that the effect on overall position is minimal. But isn't this more because MOST people who are recorded as participating in any given series are not actually mentally competing in it? They are merely taking part in individual races, one day at a time. The amount of DNCs you see on nearly all club results I look at it, would suggest to me that most dinghy sailors are not that fussed about their club series- even in class racing. To me the whole concept of a club series seem like a waste of time, or at the very least an anachronism from a bygone era - and if anything, I feel it instils cliquey-ness amongst those time rich enough to go week-in, week-out. Therefore if suggestions like your above could actually improve the fun factor of those individual races, maybe you shouldn't be so ready to discount them before testing the theory out?
Edited by kneewrecker - 20 Oct 14 at 12:10pm |
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Null ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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I didnt say big class nationals did I? But as a competitor at these large status events winning a big event like the Bloody Mary or Lord Birket is a big deal, regardless if you like it or not the number of competitors suggests that I am not far off the money. Sure taking the podium at something like the Merlin nationals is far more prestigious, But my point is that they are big business and they are taken seriously by many, many people! So suggesting its all a bit noddy is somewhat disrespectful. IMO
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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So what fools we sailors are if we don't realise this truth, with club after club endlessly striving to build strong class racing and failing, and so many people enthusing after the new wonder boat and all the rest of it? Or, just maybe, that endlessly repeated sweeping statement isn't true for many people? Personally I don't go racing primarily for intense boat on boat battling, although its fun when it happens: I go racing to provide a focus in order to have more fun sailing a boat I like to be in. I'm not sure that I don't feel a little sorry for people who don't care what they are in as long as its close racing, because there's so much else they are missing out on with that narrow focus. Sure the narrow focus is the way to win Championships and gain Olympic medals, and I'm not going to do either with my attitude and frankly, I don't give a damn. Edited by JimC - 20 Oct 14 at 12:43pm |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Is it? Prestigious to who? I don't care who he or she is, it's a bloody old boat filled with bits of string, so complicated they all have to get drunk afterwards. The only thing they're known for is breaking the bar record at Salcombe S.C. The most prestigious? I would have thought that event where they invite everyone and torture them by making them sail some washing up bowl. That I guess and the Olympics. Winning a "nationals' in some class where it's the same old same old 50 or 60 people, sorry no prestige in that, certainly not impressing me. I bet the GP14 National Champion is a household name - er Not. I agree the Birket or Bloody Mary I like to know who won, but the entire Great Lakes Series? Who cares.. I don't even know who won the Round island event, it'll be some Cat, they're a Cat club these days, I only noticed Mike blagged a good result and credit to him, was I happy that he 'got away with it' not really, but if that's the way of things, then so be it, so I'll now look at his boat with a view to maybe getting one. Commercial success these days appears to be for who can best manipulate the PY system, if you are not a big enough Marketing organisation to ignore it, what a tragic position we find ourselves in. |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Some classes tend to attract top sailors for their nationals. Ones the spring to mind are Merlin Rocket, Fireball and Solo. These often read like a who's who of the current dinghy sailing world.
Personally I would be far more satisfied to place well in a fleet like this than win a much smaller fleet. Same story for the winter handicap events although these are more of a lottery as depending on the conditions will depend on which classes are in with a shout of the chocolates.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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