Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Simple Racing Rules |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 11:14am |
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Well I used to know them obviously the more serious you are about competing at high level, the more often you have to reach for the rule book.
But I was shocked to learn that 'mast a beam' and luffing rights have gone, not that it stops me doing it or calling for them, since no one else knows and they think I do, which is just fine. Everything was working well until I met that shouty man Maxibuddah who didn't like my 2 point rule set. A club level reduced set of basics, would be a good idea nonetheless. |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Yep, to my mind this is the right way, and Mr Becker's guidelines are a pretty good shot at that. The way I put it is that these guidelines - better talk of them as guidelines rather than rules I think - will handle most simple and two boat situations and enable a new or casual sailor to get round the course without creating chaos. What they don't do is cover all situations, and if they are all you know you also need to know that sometimes you'll just have to wait for the pack to pass and keep well out of it rather than get into a complicated situation that you won't understand. Windward mark roundings in groups I suppose are as good an example as any. If you want to mix it in to the last inch you'd better know the full rules. If you're content to sail a few boat lengths further and go round the outside then just make sure you don't try going anywhere near the mark on port tack and keep to windward of the pack/lay line and you'll get round without too much hassle. |
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rb_stretch ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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I reckon I might know at best 50% of the (on the water) rules properly and even with concerted effort I don't think I would get to anywhere near a proper understanding. In terms of club sailing I would class that as much better than average, so does suggest something isn't working.
Having developed rules in business life, I do know that there is a balance to be struck in how tight/precise to make the rules vs how widely applied they will be. Based on experience I have generally erred towards making things more applicable rather than more precise and just accept that some situations won't be covered and then rely on the spirit of the rules to make an exceptional interpretation. If RRS are developed with top regattas in mind then they will almost certainly be too precise for the majority, so I think the basic concept of this thread had merit. It would be interesting to test the outlined simple rules in club racing to see how many circumstances go beyond them. My guess is very few.
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Another good post there Jim.... with regards windward mark roundings, I've been involved in a few pile-ups over the years, normally in the pack at a nationals or large open meetings in more popular classes. Almost for certain boats touch, and almost for certain, barely anyone involved takes penalties or protests. Secondly if there is a pile up, anyone chasing the pack can usually be set to benefit, regardless of whether they had rights to enter the melee in the first place. Okay the guy on the outside might be obvious, as is the guy who maybe 'shut the gate' when others had overlap but he manages to muscle through regardless.... but in the main, these situations just flow through and it gets laughed off ashore.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Surely situations aren't going to be any less complex in club racing than major events, given similar numbers of boats: maybe even more complicated because the boats might differ wildly in performance and dimensions. Consider 4 boats approaching a port rounding windward mark, all overlapped, two on port, two on starboard. With the simplified guidelines all the port people can really do is to stop and wait for the others to go past, but the full rules cover whether they can tack, in what situations they have rights, all the rest of it. As an example for how complicated club racing can get: consider Peter and I approaching a windward mark, he in his RS100, me in my Canoe. Its possible that we could be on exactly the same heading, but I could squeeze round the mark by making sure the plank is right out to windward, but there could be no way he can get than 300 round because its so much wider! |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Under simplified rules - if the port tackers can get through the gap without forcing a change of direction from the starboard tackers, then I can't see the issue. In reality, I'm fairly sure most port tackers coming in to the mark would stop, or dip... only the cowboys crash tack in, even if they can prove they had the rights, they are still cowboys! Edited by kneewrecker - 21 Aug 14 at 12:08pm |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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For me, the simple rules wouldn't be for standard club racing - though I agree that most people (me included) don't know very many of the rules past the ones which are regularly practiced - but for beginner racing, maybe specialist short course racing (where, for sake of argument, there is never a starboard rounding) or for regatta day fun, where you are trying to attract people who normally don't race. It would be made clear that a separate set of rules would be being used, and these would be in poster form on the wall, in large writing.
1 Port gives way to starboard 2 Windward gives way to leeward 3 Overtaking boat keeps clear (this overrides rule 2 if the overtaking boat is to leeward) 4 Inside boat has right of way at marks, except at a windward mark on different tacks [I did wonder about taking this out, but it would get a bit dangerous, wouldn't it?] 5 Marks shall be passed on the side stated by the race organizer. Bumping a mark is allowed. 6 This is a non contact sport. 7 A penalty for breaking a rule will be a tack and a gybe, done one after the other, somewhere where you won't get in the way. If damage is caused by your actions, then you must retire from the race. Maybe the first words said for a protest to be valid in these rules should be "I say, old chap"? |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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PeterG ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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Under the simple rules I defined that would be acceptable Boots. Deliberately so... personally I think it would make some interesting game play!
![]() I think it's essential to be clear what these simplified rules are for. If we are talking about some sort of simplified subset of THE rules which could be used for a lot of club racing, beginners, reminding those who've never bothered to read the rules etc what the key points are then I can see merit. However, if you are trying to do that then why would you want to encourage hunting or relatively unrestricted luffing. Those surely are exactly the sort of things that we don't want beginners and casual club sailors facing if we want them to continue sailing with us? Peter
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Nope- get them involved, if they want a pointless procession then I doubt they'd step up to the race in th first place ;-)
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Maybe we need a totally different set of rules for rotomoulded boats:
Both tacks have right of way luffing and bearing away onto other boats is allowed Sailing boats into the bank is allowed At marks, there is no need for an overlap. If you can get your bow in, go for it This is a contact sport. The wearing of helmets is mandatory. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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