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Olympic 'finals' proposal

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olympic 'finals' proposal
    Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 9:23am

Originally posted by Guest#260

So lets run a traditional series in a bunch of "cheap" exciting classes that creates the opportinity of good "thrills and spills" and opens the sport up to nations that don't have the same resources as GBR.

We are getting away from the subject again, since the proposal has nothing to do with classes. But let's deal with this cost question and look at the "expensive" keelboats. If I remember rightly, one Yngling team reckoned they needed to raise £250K for a 4-year campaign. So the cost of the boat would have been around 10% of that. Most of the rest is modest salaries for the competitors, coaches and other support team, travel and living costs at regattas all over the world. Or consider Paul Cayard who supposedly spent $1M of his own money on his last Star campaign. Again, the boat was a tiny fraction of that. International sailing at the top level is not cheap but the cost of the boat has very little to do with it. The cost is driven by the level of professionalism you now have to bring to the campaign and the fact that it is a full-time occupation, not only for the sailors but for the teams that surround them. Sail the Olympics in Toppers if you like but it will still cost a fortune to win.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 10:11am
So Stefan, why did many of the poorer nations try to get the Radial in to replace the Europe? Are the sailing federations and Olympic coaches of these countries (the submissions were on the ISAF site) ignorant of the real costs of Olympic sailing?

One of our Australian Olympians got (IIRC) $9000 for his Olympic campaign after winning the trials. He was in a cheap class so he could charter gear, fly to Europe and survive and get well inside the top 10 which would be a great result for most countries. Just about all his previous campaign had been very low budget local stuff I think.

So you can get top 10 for very little money, even today, in the small strict OD classes.

Exactly how far would his $9000 have gone if he had to buy a 49er or Soling and drag it around Europe, buy 3 or more sails instead of one, etc?





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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Chris 249

So Stefan, why did many of the poorer nations try to get the Radial in
to replace the Europe? ... ignorant of
the real costs of Olympic sailing?


There's probably a difference between what it takes to put together a medal winning campaign and what it takes for a small country to put together a respectable mid fleet campaign. Plus of course a lot of countries buy into to the "its impossible to change classes" bit and thing that you have to have 100 Finns in the country to produce a finn champ and all the rest of it.
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Cheeky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cheeky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 11:50am
Originally posted by Guest#260

I don't think live sailing will ever be interesting
or broadcast (too long) so; the last race show down is a bit of a red
herring due to the fact that coverage will be highlights anyway.[/
P]

Rick




The last Olympics had full race coverage of almost all the raceing. With
the new use of interactive digital channels and the internet. I watched
virtually all the racing on the web whilst working ( full races ). Frankly I
don't have a problem with the new concept. As long as the pre finals
regatta points weighting is correctly devised so the leading boat carries a
fair avantage that has been gained into the Final. The Olympic ideal has
always been more about physical ability, and having one chance to get it
right. And this just ups the anti and means you'll get one balls out race at
the end rather than a load of rules bo**ocks like sailing somebody out the
back door to make the points stack up so you win.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Guest#260

So lets run a traditional series in a bunch of "cheap" exciting classes that creates the opportinity of good "thrills and spills" and opens the sport up to nations that don't have the same resources as GBR.

We are getting away from the subject again, since the proposal has nothing to do with classes. But let's deal with this cost question and look at the "expensive" keelboats. If I remember rightly, one Yngling team reckoned they needed to raise £250K for a 4-year campaign. So the cost of the boat would have been around 10% of that. Most of the rest is modest salaries for the competitors, coaches and other support team, travel and living costs at regattas all over the world. Or consider Paul Cayard who supposedly spent $1M of his own money on his last Star campaign. Again, the boat was a tiny fraction of that. International sailing at the top level is not cheap but the cost of the boat has very little to do with it. The cost is driven by the level of professionalism you now have to bring to the campaign and the fact that it is a full-time occupation, not only for the sailors but for the teams that surround them. Sail the Olympics in Toppers if you like but it will still cost a fortune to win.

The proposal is about increasing media appeal - the classes sailed has a big impact on the media appeal. Just look what the 49er has done for Olympic Sailing.

As for the cost of a campaign the class does have an impact on the costs - shipping a Star around the world is considerably more expensive than turning up with a sailing bag and renting a Laser. That is why for years Robert Shiedt(sp?) competed in th Laser; now hes won 3 medals he can attract sponsors.

Coaching and living costs do contribute much of the cost but there can be no informed argument to say that a Star campaign is comparable with that of a Laser.

SO ... media appeal and classes sailed are linked and so are the costs ...

Rick

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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 12:11pm

If you look at the Olympic Programme Commission Report (here: http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_953.pdf ) you'll see that among the things the IOC is concerned with are a) how much of each sport federation's revenues come from the Olympics, b) how expensive are the sports to stage and c) what sort of media return is there? The IOC, quite reasonably, doesn't want to become a sport federation's cash cow, and then have to put on a hugely expensive sport that nobody wants to watch. A significant proportion - I believe that it's actually a majority - of ISAF's funding is from the olympics, and so, to a degree, they are beholden to the IOC to establish a format which agrees with the IOC's aims.

Now, you may sat that all this proves is that sailing should get out of the olympics, and live on it's own feet. Personally, I feel that this is the wrong decision - first, there are many countries around the world where official support for sports is related to their olympic status - olympic sports get state support, non-olympic ones don't. Second, there are many sports trying to get in to the olympics because they understand the marketing potential. Getting out strikes me as cutting of your nose to spite your face.

What I personally have come to believe they should do is acknowledge that  sailing is not a great live broadcast sport. There are two ways to deal with broadcast media and sailing - a) an edited highlights programme and b) - which I believe is far more interesting - increasing exploitation of the internet, with a combination of internet broadcasting and virtual spectator type methods, using live GPS positioning.



Edited by Presuming Ed
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 12:16pm

Originally posted by Chris 249

So Stefan, why did many of the poorer nations try to get the Radial in to replace the Europe?

Because the Radial is more widely sailed. And it was a dumb decision IMO. I suspect you won't see many light Asian women doing too well in the Radial, whereas the Europe rig can be tuned to the helm's weight, within reason.

Sorry but I find your story of the plucky Australian coming in the top 10 on a tiny budget rather far-fetched. It's a rich country with a lot of rich men interested in sailing. I seriously doubt some private sponsorship couldn't have been found. 

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Cheeky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cheeky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 12:18pm
Sailing is going to be crap in China anyway so there flogging a dead horse
from a media potential. Might work if you had multipal rig classes. Last
time it was to windy for the 49er!!!! and then no wind. Man just change
your sails!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cheeky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 12:36pm
Oh.... and on the question of funding even the so called smaller nations
always seem to find enough cash to buy weapons. So it isn't anything to
do with funding it's to do with political will.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 05 at 12:46pm

Thans for the positive responses this morning re my Scuttlebutt rant which by the way was edited severely and missed out some really scathing attacks on ISAF as a body.

We have to get away from the notion that Olympic sailing is a televisual enterprise. The truth is that with the Olympic race format as it is, there's no way we can produce a worthwhile medallist whilst playing up for the TV audiences. Firstly there isn't the money to put cameras on every boat and helicopters up in the sky for all the disciplines. Plus there's no guarantee to keep the public's attention for the entirety of one race, let alone a series of 11 or 15 races. So now we have two options:

1/ Leave the Olympics as it is and let the print journalists do their best to bring the story to the masses for the majority of the series and then the broadcasters step in for the final race showdowns.

2/ Scrap the format completely, cut the classes down to say exciting boats like the 49ers only. Two classes, male and female, four races a day, held just yards off a suitable beach venue with big breeze and surf, slalom courses and that's it. The TV cameras turn up for three days of sailing and then go back to the track and field...

I fear the latter will become inevitable within 20-30 years once a few Olympic venues suffer serious financial implications and sports are chopped away to save money. Personally I think classes like the Finn, Tornado, Yngling, Star, 470 and the windsurfers are relics of a distant past and don't reflect sailing today and are not exciting nor as attractive to yound sailors in the way that the skiff type dinghies are and they should be dropped. I know that upsets so many factions within sailing but it is inevitable as we continue into a TV/Media dominated future. Sailing has to live with that and has to adapt accordingly - sorry!

Another point I'd like to raise is this: How the hell do you get on the ISAF council? It seems to me to be the biggest boys club on the planet and is run by awful committees who don't see anything from any other point of view other than their own. It looks like a divisive system with back-slapping bureaucrats totally out of touch with reality...It has to change and encompass some younger, more in touch individuals with slightly more radical views with an eye to the global perspective...

Can I post my CV here Mark??   

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