Tangible Boat Value

I think in reality that very few people spend £7k to get into the solo fleet. The majority of newcomers probably buy second-hand boats for a fraction of that cost and the majority of new boat sales will come from people trading up - so you're rarely spending a whole £7k of cash. OK so perhaps it isn't a direct part-ex but you'll get a sizeable contribution from selling the old boat so most new solos only require the purchaser to put in a few £k.

Originally posted by Peaky To be clear, I'm not knocking anyone's choice to sail a Solo, nor am I saying the builders are ripping anyone off. I'm merely questioning the sustainability, going forward, of charging £2k more for a Solo than a Aero or Zero. It is difficult to see how that differential can be justified by the boat alone. Clearly boat builders have to make a living and can't sell boats for less than they cost to produce. But if the paying public aren't willing to pay what the builder needs to make a profit, the product will stop being made. As someone who went to the show with money burning a hole in my pocket, the sensible choice for me was a Solo, as there is a fleet at my club. But it is difficult to stump up £2k extra for the boat when it is an older design concept, no matter how well executed. So I didn't get one. To say a Solo is expensive is not a personal judgement. It is easy to benchmark against other dinghies and see that there are lower priced alternatives, often with better specs. I know it's not excess profit, and that's what it costs to make. But no one owes P&B a living. I'm not picking on the Solo, it is just an example. Another is the Tasar. A great boat that I have nearly bought on three separate occasions, but they are over £11k new, which is about £3k more than an RS200 or Icon. That differential may be okay in Oz where the Tasar has strong fleets, but here it simply isn't worth it. And there are plenty of other classes where the price of the boat is only tolerated because there is an established fleet. This is an insular and introspective model that may still generate sales to existing owners or into established fleets, but will not lead to the establishment of new fleets and hence growth. And once the core of the fleet abandon it for something else, the whole thing can very quickly implode and fade away - just look at the ISO, Enterprise, Laser 4000 etc.

Is the Enterprise really fading away? Might not be growing at the rate it was in the boom years but by all accounts I thought it was doing OK?

There are loads of threads on this forum about the inadequacies of handicap racing, and many of the new classes only serve to dilute the one design pool further.

Originally posted by davidyacht There are loads of threads on this forum about the inadequacies of handicap racing, and many of the new classes only serve to dilute the one design pool further. The Solo (together with the Merlin, and possibly the RS200) are currently offering the best boat on boat adult racing to be had in the uk, be it at club, open meeting or national level. The class in virtuous position, where the difference in cost of the full package of a new boat is circa £7-£7.5k, and a fully competitive 3 year old boat can be picked up for around £ 5.5k.  I buy a new boat every 2 or 3 years, I buy a new sail every year (selling the year old sail), so I reckon my hardware cost is no more than £1k/year. I sail around 50 two hour races a year usually against at least 20 identical boats mainly sailed by sailors who will challenge me. I can categorically say this is the most satisfying racing I have enjoyed in 40 years of dinghy racing. I shall wait and see if any of the "new" classes can offer such a good deal.

The problem the Solution class has got is that there is no reason for changing your boat every 2 or 3 years. With a new sail, the 6 year old boats are just as competitive as one fresh out of the mould. Which means that there is very little incentive to put a second hand boat on the market and trade up to a new boat.

You can get yourself a brand new Solution for the cost of a 3 year old Solo but we're not yet able to turn out those big fleets. If every Solo sailor I have spoken to who's said "I'd love to be sailing this [solution] but I prefer class racing/big fleets/ we've got a lot of Solos at my club/etc." was persuaded to jump classes and buy themselves a Solution, we'd be able to provide that same sort of class racing. I guess some of the other small classes have heard similar things on their stands at the dinghy show too.

It takes changes in trends, market conditions, sometimes just an enthusiastic bunch in one club to build that critical mass and suddenly you've got "the class to sail" and the market will bear an extra couple of grand on the price of a new boat.

But the intangibles can quickly disappear. Solo fleet racing is fantastic and rightly valued highly. But if that fleet racing vanishes or the A/Zero offers it too, then the bare boat does not justify the price. Just because something costs a lot to make doesn't mean it can be sold for that cost plus a bit.

So spending £7k to fleet race a Solo may represent value and in that instance you may not separate the boat from the class, but to spend that amount to cruise it or handicap race it is less good value. All IMHO of course.