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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: harrier dinghy
    Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 5:58pm
Many of the problems talked about really were down to the rig.  As Jim C said, the original was a nightmare, upwind in breeze it flopped all over the place and was pretty much uncontrollable. If you got caught by a gust, unless you were bolt upright the boat would make huge leeway and that more than anything seemed to bring the water in over the leeward side. Once you put a better rig in there that you could control, the boat was transformed; A decent centreboard and a deeper section rudder (as was made clear by Jim C - another ex-Harrier sailor) and the boat became a pleasure to sail!

By the way Nipper, you are way, way off the mark when talking about Greg Gregory and 'wide' Merlins. They were wide way before his 'signature' design, the Ghost Rider. His later design, the Echo, well, it may have been a boat for the lighter helm but it still scored plenty of great results. Greg is yet another of the great innovators from the 'golden' era of dinghy expansion, yet sadly is one that all too few (outside of the Merlins) would even recognise.

Dougal Henshall - Pure Magic, the book of the Merlin Rocket 1945- 2015
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leedsy View Drop Down
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Posts: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Quote leedsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 8:27pm
 Now getting to grips with Harrier 36. Bought as a bendy/floppy project. Glassed in spine and ribs, mainsheet towers removed,Laser type system now used. Fireball mast cut down to Harrier size, with lowers. Bar from rear spine to top rudder fitting. Fireball rudder, Cut down White Phantom main. Foot size ok, luff shortend at head above top batten.(now looks like a merlin sail!). Hull epoxy faired and paited. At the moment still with the standard bouyancy. The rig depowers in the gusts quite well, speaders in the same place on the mast,( it was shortened by cutting off the bottom)Still working out rig settings but helm is very light. I also sail a Phantom (1394) and did not want to end up with Harrier + so I have kept to the Harrier luff and foot sizes. The hull is now very stiff, the rig works and the rudder keeps it pointing the right way The next job is to work on the helms competence. Will take some photos this weekend to post.  

Edited by leedsy - 19 Oct 13 at 9:40am
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fdsailor View Drop Down
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Posts: 27 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fdsailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 8:37pm
Pics Leedsy?  Smile
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Nipper View Drop Down
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Posts: 40 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 10:27pm
I bow to Dougal's superior knowledge of Merlin shapes and designers, I have only followed them from a great distance, as they have never been a Class on the Solent in my sailling lifetime. ( I know that very good Merlin sailors came from HRSC in the 70's before anyone points this out)
In 39 years of sailing, I have only ever crewed a Merlin once.
 However, I do know a bit about Greg. Before Merlins he designed Cherubs, and they were very sucessful especially when sailed by his brother Rob. have sailed 3 Greg Gregory designs, the wide Cherub that I owned, another mid 60's normal width Cherub that had a spinnaker with wire down the inside of the leach tapes, so you could pull the pole down hard and create what in effect was a symetrical Code Zero. Only problem was that the shape was largely triangular, so not so great  on a run. Finally I once sailed a Ghost which was Greg's design of his late 60's Cherub scaled up to 16ft. ..... It was actually about the same speed as a 505 in certain conditions, but only about 10 were built I think, as it was up against the 505 and Fireball which were both strong classes on the South Coast at that time.
 
 
39 years of dinghy racing and still waiting to peak.
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 13 at 11:49am
Hi Nipper and Dougal
We had a Ghost turn up to Lee on Solent regatta a couple of years ago, much to the surprise of race officer Malcolm Jaques an Ex Cherub national Champ and mate of the Gregory's. Rob has a Laser he sails of the beach at Hillhead and raced in a couple of interclub event last year.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 13 at 12:18pm
How did the Ghost go? I remember drooling over its entry in "House's Guide to Dinghies" back in the day.  Looked great to me then and I always wondered how it matched up to its spec in reality.
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 13 at 3:02pm
Gordon and Nipper,
Greg Gregory and his designs are one of my 'specialist subjects'! The Ghost was way ahead of it's time and with a flat cut reaching spinnaker set on a 9ft pole could be a real rocket ship. Hamble River were class racing FDs at the time and the Ghost sailed in with them which is an indication of how quick they 'could' be (though they were hard work for the crew !) The boat, with an all varnish hull, looked superb!
Sadly, Greg is one of our 'unsung heros' of dinghy development, for he was a great innovator. Recently, when Jo Richards was developing the new Merlin Rocket design that would become the 'Superfast Jellyfish' one line of thought had him going back to a shape not dissimilar to the 'Ghost Rider' - in the end Jo took another route but it shows how good the original design was. This all says to me that the Ghost, Ghost Rider and Greg himself would make an interesting article but sadly I just don't see the demand for this degree of 'historical' writing any longer!

Dougal
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NickM View Drop Down
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Posts: 328 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 13 at 5:21pm
I remember a Ghost sailing on the Medway in about 1973. Can't remember if it came out of Wilson or Medway YC. I remember at the time thinking that THAT was the boat to have. What a pity it did not take off.
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mongrel View Drop Down
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Posts: 304 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mongrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 13 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Gordon and Nipper,
 the Ghost, Ghost Rider and Greg himself would make an interesting article but sadly I just don't see the demand for this degree of 'historical' writing any longer!
 
I think there is, unfortunately Y&Y magazine don't think there is.
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 13 at 7:57pm
Mongrel..... one of the 'problems' with the Ghost was a high aspect rig, fully battened/part fully battened main but all set on a rig over which the helm had little control (back to the Harrier again!)

The upshot of the above was that the Ghost rig could 'stall out' with wet consequences! People put other rigs on them - an Osprey rig was reckoned to fit well and made the boat more sailable but nowhere near as quick.

There is a lot that we can learn from the success and failure of these 'lost classes' - plus the fact that these boats all have a 'story' to tell. From the point of view of the Ghost, sadly the ply construction didn't prove that long lasting with a result that very few examples still remain; I know of only two, one in the UK and one in Europe. But as I said, Greg was a great thinker and deserves more recognition.

I've a long term project charting out 'Dinghy development DNA' showing how designers drew on influences - and in turn influenced others.... this may yet see the light of day and if it does, the Greg will certainly get more than a passing mention!

D
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