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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Flying Cherubs
    Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 9:13am
Originally posted by gbr940

seems that Cherub sailors have FAR too much money to burn if they are gonna be putting foiling foils on...let's face it, the foils are gonna cost 3 times the amount of most the boats!

That's a fairly generalised statement to be honest.  I'd imagine it would be relatively cheaper to commission a cherub hull from a professional builder, and then source some development foils from Maguire or Full Force than it would to buy a fully tricked 14, or Merlin Rocket.

Without people innovating in development classes we wouldn't have access to some of the boats we sail today.  That scaled down 18 foot skiff in your signature is a prime example. 
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bernie View Drop Down
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Posts: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bernie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 9:52am
Originally posted by gbr940

seems that Cherub sailors have FAR too much money to burn if they are gonna be putting foiling foils on...let's face it, the foils are gonna cost 3 times the amount of most the boats!

What a daft comment to make.

Personally, I think it would be an excellent route for the class to take if it works well. The moth has done so well since going this route, and the Cherub is the best 2 man boat I can think of for it, and the 2005 rules hulls and rigs are already the right sort of shape for it, so no major obsolescence problems with the current fleet.

A big "well done" from me.
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 12:56pm
I think the Cherub class is in a much healthier position now than it was 6 years ago (certainly from an outsiders perspective).  I had the pleasure of sharing a course with them at Weymouth.  Most of the boats seem well sorted now and there are certainly some pretty looking machines.  A far cry from the cobbled together rubbish that used to semi sink around you and if you sailed down wind of you would get high off the epoxy fumes.  I think its great and a tribute to the people that they are pushing boundaries and has shown that after a major rule change (2005) a class can morph into something very different with success.  It also seems that the sailor demograph has moved on since then as well, with more couples and parent child combos.  Previously it was (probably unfairly) just seen to be sailed by skinny teenagers.
 
Again, not based on any fact, just how i saw it from where i was standing.  I wish the class all the luck in the world and please keep trying new things as it benefits all the dinghy world in the long run.

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gbr940 View Drop Down
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Posts: 198 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gbr940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 2:05pm
Always good to wind up a few people isn't it, especially as when you drop the "money" bomb in a discussion - but seriously the Cherub is one of those classes which confuses the hell out of people. Does it want to be it's own class or is it looking over it's shoulder to the Aussies who have been doing much of this development for years (take the R-Class for foiling or the 12 Footers who were twin-traps years before). 

Don't get me wrong I was/am a believer that the Arup Skiff is one of the coolest Cherubs ever to hit the water and the Carbonology GT60 was a thing of beauty (and clearly kicked ass when it was racing)...if it could just get some of the nippers from the 29er following this class could be unstoppable - I just don't think with full foiling it's the way forwards. 
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 3:54pm
If you know your Cherub history I think you will find that it was the UK that was doing the development and the Aussie side of class that started looking over it's shoulder at the UK.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by gbr940

but seriously the Cherub is one of those classes which confuses the hell out of people. 

and good on 'em... if you want a simple twin stringer there's are plenty of very nasty 5000s and Boss's kicking around.  There are even more 800s, but they ain't so nasty, in fact they're quite nice, hence they cost a bit more, even for a shed.

the beauty of the Cherub class is that it doesn't matter... if you want a tricked up 05 boat, fine, good, nice... I'm sure it's faster.  If you want a 97 rules single string, yep that's cool (Noycey, please post your recent photo!).  If you want a classic one, that's cool too, very cool in the right circumstances.  So a few of the guys get some foils... so what, it's a bit of fun.  Good luck to them.
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John Shelton View Drop Down
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Posts: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Quote John Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 4:32pm
As I'm a bit of a numpty in the foiling department, does that main foil seem a long way forward, or is that a factor of the sailplan/CoG? The Murth foil is a lot further back, but maybe because it's lighter and only has one sail.

I suppose someone put some numbers into a formula and came up with where to put it?

Looks great fun though!
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by gbr940

but seriously the Cherub is one of those classes which confuses the hell out of people. 

and good on 'em... if you want a simple twin stringer there's are plenty of very nasty 5000s and Boss's kicking around.  There are even more 800s, but they ain't so nasty, in fact they're quite nice, hence they cost a bit more, even for a shed.

the beauty of the Cherub class is that it doesn't matter... if you want a tricked up 05 boat, fine, good, nice... I'm sure it's faster.  If you want a 97 rules single string, yep that's cool (Noycey, please post your recent photo!).  If you want a classic one, that's cool too, very cool in the right circumstances.  So a few of the guys get some foils... so what, it's a bit of fun.  Good luck to them.


If all that matters is posing about and looking cool, foils might keep them amused for a bit.
But where does it lead them as a racing class?
Further splitting into factions?
Will it change the weight range of the boat?
Will it be beyond the budget of 3/4 of the class?
Will it result in any good racing?

The Moths have got over the barrier and are now getting meaningful racing.
The foiling moths seem to have brought in new people as well as keeping the core of the class.
I cannot see the cherubs doing that.
I don't know how many competitive Cherubs exist in the UK right now, but it is surely a small pool to divide?
I think it is more likely to damage a class that has a well deserved niche appeal.
A bit like the FF did to the 600?
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 6:08pm
In most other classes I'd agree with you, but the Cheryb is different. The same (with respect) stalwarts sail them regardless- and if you look at who's sailing what, seemingly appreciate a bit of retro and vintage, rather than necessarily always aspiring to the latest, newest, fastest. There's fresh blood coming through too and it's always been a breathren of open minded free spirits- I really can't see them choking on their own Kool-Aid over some stilts.

I reckon most of the active class would give these guys a clap, smile that they are to some extent free from the usual thinking around class parameters/rules etc
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timnoyce View Drop Down
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Posts: 1991 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

 the beauty of the Cherub class is that it doesn't matter... if you want a tricked up 05 boat, fine, good, nice... I'm sure it's faster.  If you want a 97 rules single string, yep that's cool (Noycey, please post your recent photo!). 

I can go one better and post the video that the screen shot was taken from!

http://youtu.be/OSDXs85PzGY
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